Locksmith drilling a Kwikset??!!

[adamforum]

Hello all,

I am not a locksmith by trade, but I have been interested in all topics relating to security for nearly my entire life. In my younger years, I found mechanical locks extremely intriguing. I collected locks and spent much time analyzing their operation while devising techniques to pick them. To me, they were nothing more than a puzzle to solve. About 10 years ago, my interest in mechanical locks peaked after having successfully picked a variety of high security locks (Abloy, ASSA, Medeco, etc.) I've gone from picking 100's of locks a month to (maybe) one a year, if I forget my apartment key, etc.

Anyways, I was speaking with my brother the other night who had been working out of state for the past 2 weeks. While he was away, his wife had gone to visit some of her relatives. Unfortunately, upon his return home he found that he had no key to get into the house. He sent me a picture of the lock and inquired for advice. I immediately recognized the lock as being a Kwikset model. Recalling it had never taken longer than 30 seconds to open a Kwikset, I told him to try carding the latch (in case his lock had not been installed properly by chance) and if that failed to call a locksmith -- they would have it open in a flash and charge him $50-75.

To my utter surprise, he reported that after more than an hour of being UNABLE to pick the KWIKSET, the locksmith drilled it! And charged him $150 for drilling and rekey!!

Now admittedly, most of the Kwiksets I routinely picked in 10-30 seconds were probably not SmartKey (sidebar) oriented, but I find it extremely hard to believe that Kwikset SmartKey became a high security lock competing with names like Medeco or Schlage Primus overnight?

I would have been so embarrassed because my recollection of Kwikset/Titan/etc. is synonymous with crap.

[GWiens2001]

IMHO, your origonal assessment of Kwikset is still correct. Have your brother tell his locksmith to watch YouTube for a much faster way to open the Smart Lock. He will still have to replace the lock, as he did after using his rotary pick , but it will save time. I personally would not trust a Smart Key to protect my house from anybody more skilled than my 8 year old son.

Gordon

[keysman]

Your friend did not call a locksmith .. he called a scammer, please see the link or do a search for “locksmith scams”

No real locksmith would ever spend 1 hr. attempting to pick a Kwickset anything. Drill ? Maybe.. personally I would be too embarrassed to charge $150 to do any work on a kwickset.

I would recommend your friend call the local better business bureau and report the person / company for substandard work and overcharging.

http://www.ehow.com/how_8036153_rid-pho ... mmers.html

[globallockytoo]

Your friend did not call a locksmith .. he called a scammer, please see the link or do a search for “locksmith scams”

No real locksmith would ever spend 1 hr. attempting to pick a Kwickset anything. Drill ? Maybe.. personally I would be too embarrassed to charge $150 to do any work on a kwickset.

I would recommend your friend call the local better business bureau and report the person / company for substandard work and overcharging.

http://www.ehow.com/how_8036153_rid-pho ... mmers.html

+1

[mhole]

I also find it hard to believe a scammer would spend an hour trying to pick a Kwikset, rather than pulling out the drill straight away. Sometimes even the best pickers hit a lock which won't cooperate, and then the rotary pick gets pressed into service. I've picked my fair share of high security (well, medium high security) locks, and I'd say I'm a pretty capable picker, but I've been stumped by the odd cheap and nasty, and more than a few vanilla-flavoured Yales.

As for the price, did he ask how much first? If it's bait and switch that's a scam, but otherwise; caveat emptor.

[cledry]

Price depends on if it was day or night and/or on the weekend. If it was an after hours call and he drilled, replaced and rekeyed then $150 is a fair price.

I would say he isn't a scammer.

The locksmith actually did far more than I would do. If it wasn't picked in 10-15 minutes it would be drilled or otherwise compromised and replaced. To spend an hour attempting to pick means the guy went out of his way to try and save them money by leaving the drill as a last resort. A scammer or more experienced more savvy locksmith wouldn't have wasted an hour for $150.

[globallockytoo]

being unable to compromise a kwikset knobset in under 10 minutes without damage is unforgiveable for anyone who claims to be a locksmith, heck anyone fullstop! there are so many simple and easy bypasses for any knobset that take less than 10 minutes to perform, it is obvious that whoever this person was, they were not a locksmith. Drill or not.....there is absolutely no excuse to spend that long on any lock.

[FarmerFreak]

I also find it hard to believe a scammer would spend an hour trying to pick a Kwikset, rather than pulling out the drill straight away. Sometimes even the best pickers hit a lock which won't cooperate, and then the rotary pick gets pressed into service. I've picked my fair share of high security (well, medium high security) locks, and I'd say I'm a pretty capable picker, but I've been stumped by the odd cheap and nasty, and more than a few vanilla-flavoured Yales.

As for the price, did he ask how much first? If it's bait and switch that's a scam, but otherwise; caveat emptor.

+1

The locksmith may not have been very experienced.. But still unlikely to be a scammer. More likely the customer insisted that the lock shouldn't be broken.. So the lesser experienced locksmith spent too much time trying to pick something he couldn't..

FYI, if it is/was a smartkey lock. Then it will likely be much much more difficult to pick than a Primus or a Medeco. There are other reasons why kwikset smartkey locks aren't compared to primus/medeco.. Destructive entry being one of them, and reliability being another.. (smartkey locks have a history of failing under regular use, leaving people locked outside with the keys in their hands)

[sandplum]

It is unclear from the original post if the lock was a Smartkey or not, but if the locksmith drilled the cylinder out, it is unlikely that he replaced it with a Smartkey cylinder. The new lock should probably be replaced with something better than the classic Kwikset cylinder, preferably something drill resistant. (oh, and if it's not a deadbolt, it should be)

[cledry]

It is unclear from the original post if the lock was a Smartkey or not, but if the locksmith drilled the cylinder out, it is unlikely that he replaced it with a Smartkey cylinder. The new lock should probably be replaced with something better than the classic Kwikset cylinder, preferably something drill resistant. (oh, and if it's not a deadbolt, it should be)

That depends on what the customer wants. I mean if you have a house with sliding doors you don't need concern yourself with making a lock hard to drill. Thieves aren't in the habit of drilling locks on homes in my experience.

[2octops]

being unable to compromise a kwikset knobset in under 10 minutes without damage is unforgiveable for anyone who claims to be a locksmith, heck anyone fullstop! there are so many simple and easy bypasses for any knobset that take less than 10 minutes to perform, it is obvious that whoever this person was, they were not a locksmith. Drill or not.....there is absolutely no excuse to spend that long on any lock.

I disagree.

Usually they are not very difficult to pick or bypass. Sometimes they can be a real pain. Sometimes the situation and circumstances make a lot of difference in how simple it is to get something done.

I've been making a living at this game for longer than some of you have been alive.

I've drilled Kwikset knobs before because I could not get them to pick.

In the real world, stuff happens.

[cledry]

being unable to compromise a kwikset knobset in under 10 minutes without damage is unforgiveable for anyone who claims to be a locksmith, heck anyone fullstop! there are so many simple and easy bypasses for any knobset that take less than 10 minutes to perform, it is obvious that whoever this person was, they were not a locksmith. Drill or not.....there is absolutely no excuse to spend that long on any lock.

I disagree.

Usually they are not very difficult to pick or bypass. Sometimes they can be a real pain. Sometimes the situation and circumstances make a lot of difference in how simple it is to get something done.

I've been making a living at this game for longer than some of you have been alive.

I've drilled Kwikset knobs before because I could not get them to pick.

In the real world, stuff happens.

Agreed. Like you I have been in the business for a long time @30 years. We don't have the luxury of just working on pristine locks, we get locks with weak springs, even missing springs; we get locks full of junk; locks with bits of mulch, plastic forks even pasta shoved inside. It might be raining, snowing (well not here), sun blazing down, middle of the night in a bad neighbourhood. You might have rug rats pestering you, dogs sniffing around, customers who are impatient, bystanders who taunt you. The lock might be installed upside-down, the door jamb may get in the way; there are a multitude of reasons why the drill must come out.

[2octops]

The last one I drilled looked brand new. Heck, the customer had just bought it from me a few months earlier and then lost the keys and locked themselves out.

He had it mounted upside down. There was a security door that would only open to about 45 degrees and the frame was overlapping into the door opening. There were 7 or 8 steps up to it and they felt like they could collapse at any moment. He wanted to stand over my shoulder and watch while offering suggestions. Yes it was raining so he was inside the security door with me to stay dry.

After about 10 minutes I couldn't take it anymore and drilled it. I've got plenty of those old cylinders on the truck so I just replaced it for no extra charge.

It was easier to drill than deal with the situation.

[MBI]

The last one I drilled looked brand new. Heck, the customer had just bought it from me a few months earlier and then lost the keys and locked themselves out.
He had it mounted upside down. There was a security door that would only open to about 45 degrees and the frame was overlapping into the door opening. There were 7 or 8 steps up to it and they felt like they could collapse at any moment. He wanted to stand over my shoulder and watch while offering suggestions. Yes it was raining so he was inside the security door with me to stay dry.
After about 10 minutes I couldn't take it anymore and drilled it. I've got plenty of those old cylinders on the truck so I just replaced it for no extra charge.
It was easier to drill than deal with the situation.

The mental imagery there gave me a good chuckle.
And it was nice of you to replace the cylinder for free.

[globallockytoo]

being unable to compromise a kwikset knobset in under 10 minutes without damage is unforgiveable for anyone who claims to be a locksmith, heck anyone fullstop! there are so many simple and easy bypasses for any knobset that take less than 10 minutes to perform, it is obvious that whoever this person was, they were not a locksmith. Drill or not.....there is absolutely no excuse to spend that long on any lock.

I disagree.

Usually they are not very difficult to pick or bypass. Sometimes they can be a real pain. Sometimes the situation and circumstances make a lot of difference in how simple it is to get something done.

I've been making a living at this game for longer than some of you have been alive.

I've drilled Kwikset knobs before because I could not get them to pick.

In the real world, stuff happens.

Guess ,you havent heard or seen or used an A1 puller. Pull the cylinder and expose the locking spindle.
aside......an airwedge and plastic card is enough.