I'm having trouble picking these padlocks, not just for fun but kind of a project too. I had found one last summer with out key and now recently a couple of pairs w/ operating keys but no control key. I'm trying to pick the control key line but would also like to defeat the operating line as well. I don't think I have to tell anyone how good these padlocks are even if these ones are not brand new. Any suggestions, tips, techniques, or methods to suggest would be greatly appreciated.
I have found some ways in order to get the cylinder out with out drilling the control bar, but if there is a picking method out there I would be more than appreciative. I saw one on youtube picked open but they were still working on picking the control line to get the core out. Anyway any input would be great.
the only way i have ever been able to pick to the control shear reliably is with a special tension wrench. its designed to put tension on the control lug helping to set to the pins at the control shear line. i have seen co-workers do it without but i have only ever done it once without.
Do a web search for I-Core tension tools and you will find some examples of what you need. You can make them if you are handy with a file or dremel , or just purchase some if not. Just make sure they fit tight , you may need to shim them with a piece of toothpick or something.
What is the best way to educate the masses? ... " A television in every home." What is the best way to control the masses? ... " A television in every room." From "Charlie" AKA " Flowers for Algernon"
A guy named xeo wrote a tutorial on "forcing" an SFIC core to the control shearline while picking, without using the special wrench. I'm not sure if it's also posted here on lp101, but it's out there in internetland. As far as I know it's a relatively new idea. I haven't done it myself but as I understand it, it takes some practice and a moderate level of picking skill.
I meant to add in my previous post that you can use a serrated top of keyway tool to do this if it gets enough bite to pull out the core, but it takes some practice.
What is the best way to educate the masses? ... " A television in every home." What is the best way to control the masses? ... " A television in every room." From "Charlie" AKA " Flowers for Algernon"
MBI wrote:A guy named xeo wrote a tutorial on "forcing" an SFIC core to the control shearline while picking, without using the special wrench. I'm not sure if it's also posted here on lp101, but it's out there in internetland. As far as I know it's a relatively new idea. I haven't done it myself but as I understand it, it takes some practice and a moderate level of picking skill.
I haven't been able to to this on an SFIC, but I've pulled it off on a Corbin MasterRing. This method is a generic method to force a sheerline over the other, so it's exactlty the same being an SFIC or not. I can say it's not easy, but it is possible.
In a basic way (I'm not proeficient at this yet, so I can't offer much advice) you have to force a sheerline by disregarding the other. The best way to do this is to be able to pick the lock to operating, and then force some pins higher untill they set on the other sheerline. After that it becomes a little easier, as the other pins should naturally bind on the control sheerline.
From what I've heard (I haven't tried tis yet, but will, and will post results), on 6 pin BEST's, the 2 middle pins, (on 7 pin'ers it's the middle 3) pick up the control lug. Try to get them first. If they don't bind at first, try picking the lock normally untill you get to them. After they set, push some more on the pins. If they set higher you should have setted the pin on the control lug (unless they are masterkeyed). Probably every other pin will drop at this moment, meaning the "other sheerline" is not binding anymore (this may not happen). Then, go on picking it.
I'll try this too. Let us know if it works for you!
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise. - GWiens2001
SOME SFIC locks will be set up with the middle two pins being used for the control. A properly pinned Best SFIC will have every pin stack as part of the control key - no key cuts will be the same as the change (operating) key.
That said, had one that only used one pin for the control lug, with all other pins the same as the change key. So it depends on who set up the lock core.
Good luck! Keep us informed.
Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
GWiens2001 wrote:SOME SFIC locks will be set up with the middle two pins being used for the control. A properly pinned Best SFIC will have every pin stack as part of the control key - no key cuts will be the same as the change (operating) key.
That said, had one that only used one pin for the control lug, with all other pins the same as the change key. So it depends on who set up the lock core.
Good luck! Keep us informed.
Gordon
Nice! Thanks for the info, Gordon!
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise. - GWiens2001
Thanks all for the awesome insight, tips, techniques, etc. I believe these are factory direct pinned padlocks, 6 pin. There are three that are keyed alike. 2 small padlocks and one larger, and then the other larger. The set of 3 is numbered; N23-3, and the other is N25-15. I don't know the significance of these numbers.? I may have to invest in a peterson pry with these. I was suggested to get/use one with an American Lock padlock I was working on but I managed to pick it w/out one, but these seem to be a whole different animal. Would impressioning them work as well to get to the control line any faster? Thank you all again. Troyloc
No idea if it's faster (picking usually is though).
But you can impression a key for the control line. In order to do so, I advise you to just try to impression a key for it. If it happens to be the operating and not the control, start over, but on one of the pins, file a little more than what would be needed, and test if you can hit some sheerline with it.
If not, start over, do the same again, but on a different pin.
I've never done it, so maybe someone will chime in....
Go ahead, keep plugging away, picking on me! You will end up on bypass or with rigor mortise. - GWiens2001
Have done it a couple of times, but it is significantly harder to do, especially if the key uses at least one, and preferably two or more pin stacks where the control cut is lower than the operating cut, with the others above. Then the first sheer line reached will be the operating sheer line on some pins, but the control sheer line on other pins.
Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
Troylock wrote:How about bumping or pick gun method?
You've already been given the best answer to your question, get the proper tension wrench with the teeth to engage the holes inside the lock so you can tension it to the control sleeve and thus pick it to control. No, bumping and pick gun are not going to open it to control any more than they would open the lock to normal operating mode.
And skip the Peterson pry bar, that is not the same as the tension tool with the fingers. grab a ruler, a windshield wiper insert, and a file, and in an hour you will have the proper tool. then pick it and you'll be surprised at how easy it was. read this: http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/sfic/torque.html
Please post a photo of your cylinder/lock face, those numbers you posted mean nothing to us, and probably something to the original locksmith shop that set up that system. to post a photo upload them to http://tinypic.com/ and then Paste the link in your reply.
