Key duplication

[Chronos]

I have a question regarding key duplication: If I were to make an impression of a key with clay, than fire it in a kiln, would it be possible to than pour metal into the ceramic impression of the key could I make a copy of it this way?

[MrB]

Of course. If your copy of the key is exactly the same shape as the original and is strong enough to operate the lock without bending or breaking, then it would work.

But the practical difficulties of making the mould and casting the key would make this not a good method of key duplication in normal circumstances.

[Wesson357]

It seems your kiln idea would cause the mold to expand and thus not produce a duplicate key.

[MrB]

Why do you say expand? I was under the impression that clay shrinks when it dries.

You probably don't need to fire the clay though, just let it dry completely.

More difficult is creating a three dimensional mould covering both sides of the key. You have to press clay onto both sides of the key at once, without one side sticking to the other. Maybe cling film or saran wrap would help?

[Wesson357]

Well there is stuff that works without drying or firing but I dont know if the mods want it on the open forums or not.

[Mr Ules]

My grandfather used to use a similar process. I believe he also made a clay mold. It was some kind of mold that would harden without drying. I guess it worked because this was his technique.

[Guest]

They have a duplicate system on the www.multipick-service.com web site. It uses a cold mix system.

Don

[Chronos]

I've seen that system, but that is more money than I want to spend, this is just a hobby for me and that would be kind of a lot to put in when I'm not getting anything out of it. I have clay and a kiln at my disposal though so I was thinking they might work. Wesson357, if you could pm that info I would greatly appreciate it.

[stick]

Clay will shrink, usually around 10%, when fired.

[MrB]

Chronos, be a scientist, just experiment.

Since clay is somewhat heat resistant, there is no special need to fire it after making a mould. Contact with molten metal will kind of fire it anyway.

Remember though that moisture is your enemy. You will have to make sure that the clay is completely dry before you try adding any molten metal. Once it is air dry, you could try putting it in a warm oven for a few hours to make absolutely sure.

Since keys have grooves on both sides, how do you plan to make a three dimensional mould? The MultiPick system appears to use some kind of rubbery substance, so you can plonk the key in vertically while it sets, and then pull the key out without upsetting the mould. You obviously can't do that with clay (or plaster of paris), so you will need a mould in two halves. That is one of your most important challenges to overcome.

For the metal, you could use silver solder, or brazing rod. Ordinary electrical (lead) solder will likely be too soft to make a key, although it is much easier to melt, and might work if you are careful not to be too heavy handed with the result.

Good luck!

[catzmeow]

Playing into this a little, couldn't you use a metal with a really low melting point as to not affect the clay mold? The metal would probably be too soft to use as the actual key, but then you could use it as a guide to duplicate an actual key from a blank. (Pretty much what Mr. B said) The clay will shrink if you fire it, but if you use a low temp metal, you shouldn't need to fire it.

(I'm working on the assumption that the reason he wants to use clay is because he doesn't have access to the original key long enough to make a legitimate copy)

[Pickermeapie]

I've actually tried this once. I used some sort of Artistan clay that shrunk very little when baked, Agreeing with Mr. B, the problem I ran into is that there are wards on both side of a key... putting the clay impressions together after the 'impressioning' was difficult to do without making the smallest imperfections in the key that would make it inoperable. The other thing is when you push the key into the clay, you have to make sure you only push in half of the keys width, otherwise the key will be to thick to put into the keyway. But I was thinking of putting another bit of clay into the mold I made, then cutting a metal key on a keymachine, like catz stated
-Pickermeapie

[catzmeow]

What did Handsome Rob use on Italian Job when he was making a copy of Becky's van key?

Granted, she wasn't very bright...but it looked to sandwich the key to avoid that dilema, no?

[Chronos]

Okay, so I went ahead and tried it. I used regular silver bearing solder, and clay. I didn't do anythign special to the clay and it didn't work too bad. The hardest thing I found was actually pouring the solder into the mold. Wasn't too bad though, I think I could do it in a couple more tries, I was just down for now. Here is a webpage I made with pics of it:
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/keyaz/

[HeadHunterCEO]

whats the point in making some boot leg solder key?

why not just push the side of the key into the clay and eyeball the depths?

cut it on a real blank with a key machine.


even if you don't have a key machine you could do the same witha file and a blank and the best part is you can check your work as you go without killing the mold