Door knobs vs. Deadbolts

[Oatmealer]

Hello from New Hampshire!

I'll cut to the chase... Why am I finding that door knobs are more difficult than deadbolts? I have several Schlage door knobs and deadbolts that I've been practicing with. I am proficient with SPP'ing the deadbolts. However, the door knobs have been giving me a hard time. I have the keys to all of them, they all function properly. I prefer to SPP, I really enjoy the art. But I've even tried the snapgun, the Bogie rakes, the S rake, every hook, half diamond and Gem that I have... I've tried light tension, medium tension, stiff tension... I have gotten them unlocked, but very, very inconsistently. It seems to me that because the knobs are somewhat "jiggly", maybe I'm not holding the knob properly? Should I be putting turning pressure on the knob with my tension hand? Or holding it stead? Or not holding it at all?

Thanks for your time!

[billdeserthills]

Sounds like you have a lot of tools but little practice
Reminds me of that karate kid move 'whacks on/whacks off'
I mean wax on/wax off

[Oatmealer]

Sounds like you have a lot of tools but little practice
Reminds me of that karate kid move 'whacks on/whacks off'
I mean wax on/wax off

We all have to start somewhere, right? I was more looking for guidance, possibly an answer to my questions. But instead, I've been reminded of the same movie... The part at the end when he wins because of his practice, determination and education.

[MBI]

Assuming you're talking about a regular, low security pin-tumbler cylinder like you'll find on most houses in the US, there's nothing special about it. Whether it's installed in a knob, deadbolt, padlock, or anything else, you pick it basically the same. Sometimes you might have to work at awkward angles or positions depending on where and how you have the lock mounted, but the basic picking principles are the same.

Insert wrench, apply tension.
Insert hook (or your preferred pick) and find the binding pin, set the binding pin, then look for the next binding pin. Continue until it opens.

As Bill said, it sounds like what you need is just more practice.

[Oatmealer]

Assuming you're talking about a regular, low security pin-tumbler cylinder like you'll find on most houses in the US, there's nothing special about it. Whether it's installed in a knob, deadbolt, padlock, or anything else, you pick it basically the same. Sometimes you might have to work at awkward angles or positions depending on where and how you have the lock mounted, but the basic picking principles are the same.

Insert wrench, apply tension.
Insert hook (or your preferred pick) and find the binding pin, set the binding pin, then look for the next binding pin. Continue until it opens.

As Bill said, it sounds like what you need is just more practice.

Thanks for the guidance. So there's no trick in holding he knob steady so it doesn't move around?

[billdeserthills]

Assuming you're talking about a regular, low security pin-tumbler cylinder like you'll find on most houses in the US, there's nothing special about it. Whether it's installed in a knob, deadbolt, padlock, or anything else, you pick it basically the same. Sometimes you might have to work at awkward angles or positions depending on where and how you have the lock mounted, but the basic picking principles are the same.

Insert wrench, apply tension.
Insert hook (or your preferred pick) and find the binding pin, set the binding pin, then look for the next binding pin. Continue until it opens.

As Bill said, it sounds like what you need is just more practice.

Thanks for the guidance. So there's no trick in holding he knob steady so it doesn't move around?

If you wanted to pick the lock towards the right,
it may be helpful to first turn the knob to the left,
to relieve any contact from the tailpiece

[Squelchtone]

Oatmealer, how long have you actually been picking? it will make a difference the kind of advice we give you if you say a week versus a month vs 6 months. Did you start off with a Peterson set or have you upgraded over time from something more basic like a Southord?

Schlage knob cylinders for me at least tend to fell like they have a lot of slop and they float around inside the knob. Those T pins arent fun either if you have an F Series knob. You may find those Schlage knobs easier to pick in one direction, but impossible in the other direction, that's just one of those things.

Squelchtone

[Oatmealer]

Oatmealer, how long have you actually been picking? it will make a difference the kind of advice we give you if you say a week versus a month vs 6 months. Did you start off with a Peterson set or have you upgraded over time from something more basic like a Southord?

Schlage knob cylinders for me at least tend to fell like they have a lot of slop and they float around inside the knob. Those T pins arent fun either if you have an F Series knob. You may find those Schlage knobs easier to pick in one direction, but impossible in the other direction, that's just one of those things.

Squelchtone

It started out several years ago as an interest. Something to pass the time. I bought a cheapo Dino pick kit and started with various padlocks and whatever cheap door knobs and deadbolts I could get from family, friends and thrift stores. I got proficient at unlocking all but the ones with smaller keyways. (The Dino's are .028-.032 thick). I realized that I didn't have much knowledge on the subject so I went to my dad for advice. He was a locksmith in the military back in the early 80's. He let me use some of his tools and I was very impressed with how much better they seemed to function than my cheapo set. Everything got put on hold after I had my first daughter. Then, I decided I'd like to pursue the knowledge through Foley-Belsaw. The whole package, not just picking locks. Even if I wouldn't end up doing it professionally, it would still be a nice skill set to have. Plus, it's a lot of fun as a hobby. I bought a couple sets from ThinkPeterson, I have my snapgun and key cutter and I've been trucking along at my own pace for about 6 months consistently. So, I am most certainly a beginner. But I do have a full understanding on how pin tumbler locks operate and have a good deal of practice with them.

It's just the Schlage door knobs I'm having trouble with. The deadbolts are difficult, but I seem to have a better feel for the binding pins and feedback from the security pins. I'm not sure what series they are. They are brushed nickel in color and take an SC1 key blank. The knobs do feel sloppy, like all the pins and springs are just all over the place. I have tried them in the opposite way, the cylinder turns more frequently, but it's obviously just like locking an already locked door. I've made a couple plug spinners from information on here, but I can't get them to work successfully. So, I may be in the market for one shortly.

I appreciate the response!

[Oatmealer]

Assuming you're talking about a regular, low security pin-tumbler cylinder like you'll find on most houses in the US, there's nothing special about it. Whether it's installed in a knob, deadbolt, padlock, or anything else, you pick it basically the same. Sometimes you might have to work at awkward angles or positions depending on where and how you have the lock mounted, but the basic picking principles are the same.

Insert wrench, apply tension.
Insert hook (or your preferred pick) and find the binding pin, set the binding pin, then look for the next binding pin. Continue until it opens.

As Bill said, it sounds like what you need is just more practice.

Thanks for the guidance. So there's no trick in holding he knob steady so it doesn't move around?

If you wanted to pick the lock towards the right,
it may be helpful to first turn the knob to the left,
to relieve any contact from the tailpiece

That makes sense. Thank you!

[cledry]

It does help to hold the lock steady in my experience. I think the issue you are having is due to the collapsible bible and the t-pins. The deadbolts don't use these but the cheap knobs do. Turning the knob shouldn't make a bit of difference on the residential Schlage but may on the commercial ones. Frankly the fact that the locks still functions after using a pick gun is a miracle.

[Oatmealer]

It does help to hold the lock steady in my experience. I think the issue you are having is due to the collapsible bible and the t-pins. The deadbolts don't use these but the cheap knobs do. Turning the knob shouldn't make a bit of difference on the residential Schlage but may on the commercial ones. Frankly the fact that the locks still functions after using a pick gun is a miracle.

I did research on the pick guns. I made sure to purchase a high quality one off a reputable site. The paperwork on the pick gun states that it will not damage the lock. Maybe after repeated use it might wear the pins or warding down. These are locks that aren't in use, so if the pins break, I'll disassemble them and re-pin them. I've never had to adjust the tension wheel. It's been at the lowest setting since I started using it.

Thanks for the reply!

[cledry]

It does help to hold the lock steady in my experience. I think the issue you are having is due to the collapsible bible and the t-pins. The deadbolts don't use these but the cheap knobs do. Turning the knob shouldn't make a bit of difference on the residential Schlage but may on the commercial ones. Frankly the fact that the locks still functions after using a pick gun is a miracle.

I did research on the pick guns. I made sure to purchase a high quality one off a reputable site. The paperwork on the pick gun states that it will not damage the lock. Maybe after repeated use it might wear the pins or warding down. These are locks that aren't in use, so if the pins break, I'll disassemble them and re-pin them. I've never had to adjust the tension wheel. It's been at the lowest setting since I started using it.

Thanks for the reply!

How many do you think they would sell if they told you that it may damage the locks? Just remember when those instructions were written this Schlage lock didn't exist. This lock has only been on the market since 2005.

[Oatmealer]

[quote="cledry"]

How many do you think they would sell if they told you that it may damage the locks? Just remember when those instructions were written this Schlage lock didn't exist. This lock has only been on the market since 2005.[/quote]

I understand that. I'm not attempting to debate you. I would think that a Grade 1 Schlage wouldn't crumble under the impact of a pick gun. Repeated, prolonged use, absolutely. The pick gun isn't something I jump on right away, even if it is quick and easy. I prefer to SPP. There's a whole different sense of satisfaction feeling that cylinder turn while SPPing VS the gun. I would have assumed a bump key would cause significantly more wear and tear. But I haven't gotten into that section yet.

[billdeserthills]

How many do you think they would sell if they told you that it may damage the locks? Just remember when those instructions were written this Schlage lock didn't exist. This lock has only been on the market since 2005.

I understand that. I'm not attempting to debate you. I would think that a Grade 1 Schlage wouldn't crumble under the impact of a pick gun. Repeated, prolonged use, absolutely. The pick gun isn't something I jump on right away, even if it is quick and easy. I prefer to SPP. There's a whole different sense of satisfaction feeling that cylinder turn while SPPing VS the gun. I would have assumed a bump key would cause significantly more wear and tear. But I haven't gotten into that section yet.

What makes you think you are picking a 'grade 1' lockset?
An actual Schlage grade 1 knob lock will only turn to the right and costs over $300

[Oatmealer]

How many do you think they would sell if they told you that it may damage the locks? Just remember when those instructions were written this Schlage lock didn't exist. This lock has only been on the market since 2005.

I understand that. I'm not attempting to debate you. I would think that a Grade 1 Schlage mwouldn't crumble under the impact of a pick gun. Repeated, prolonged use, absolutely. The pick gun isn't something I jump on right away, even if it is quick and easy. I prefer to SPP. There's a whole different sense of satisfaction feeling that cylinder turn while SPPing VS the gun. I would have assumed a bump key would cause significantly more wear and tear. But I haven't gotten into that section yet.

What makes you think you are picking a 'grade 1' lockset?
An actual Schlage grade 1 knob lock will only turn to the right and costs over $300

Thanks for the help. I'll seek guidance elsewhere.