Unpickable?

[s0u1h4ck3r]

Hi all
I was wondering if a lock with no security pins can be unpickable just by the bite of the key and the binding order of the pins? Or wil it eventually open with patience and the right tools?

I bought a Yale Y110/40 today and I have spent a couple of hours trying to get it open with no luck.

[Silverado]

Nothing is un-pickable.
I've learned from playing with locks that those difficult variables in the bitting will not make it impossible to pick.

If you think about it...anything can be bypassed. If people can have the mental capacity to create something, other people can have the mental capacity to find a way to circumvent it.

[AceOfShades]

No lock is truly unpickable. As long as you can feel one part move against another, you can gain information and defeat the lock. That being said, some Abloys come darn close to being unpickable.

[kwoswalt99-]

Some locks are truly unpickable using the typical definition of 'picking'.

[Silverado]

kwoswalt99- has a good point.
A combination lock is "unpickable" because you physically cannot "pick" the lock.

Though s0u1h4ck3r asked can a lock with no security pins be unpickable because of difficult bitting alone.

Keep practicing and getting the feel for it s0u1h4ck3r, practice is the only way to "git gud" in this hobby.

[s0u1h4ck3r]

I just have to keep trying then. My problem with this lock is that pin one binds first and is really low so it keeps over setting when I am trying to sett the other pins.
This is the first lock I have bought with no security pins that I have not been able to open within ten minutes.
I did buy the lock with the most radical biting of the ones they had for sale so I might have bought my self a little "problem" hehe

[smokingman]

Which tool are you using ?
Rake? Hook? Half Diamond?
You will most likely need a short or medium hook to get under the low pin and lift the others,
maybe even a deep hook.

[s0u1h4ck3r]

So far I have tried a short hook and a half diamond (sparrows tuxedo kit) and the short hook from the sparrows SSDeV hook sett. And I have tried different rakes in frustration hehe
I don't know if a medium or deep hook would fit because of the warding in the key way.
I need to make a custom TOK tension wrench to try a deeper hook so I guess I should try that.
But when I try to insert a deep hook without a tension wrench I barely can get it around the warding to touch the pins, and me being a total noob I am not sure if I can feel all the pins.
Maybe the 0.015 short hook wil be able to "wrap around " the warding? I am a bit worried that I will destroy the fragile little thing if I try that though.

[Silverado]

It wouldn't hurt to get the pick in there at an angle and lever off the side of the warding. I've got a keyway where that is the only way to pick it. Probably not advisable to try and slinky the thing through the warding though...I feel like your pick would get bent up or get stuck in there.
The Sparrows TOK tools are inexpensive for the set, and have been doing everything I need them to.

[s0u1h4ck3r]

It wouldn't hurt to get the pick in there at an angle and lever off the side of the warding. I've got a keyway where that is the only way to pick it. Probably not advisable to try and slinky the thing through the warding though...I feel like your pick would get bent up or get stuck in there.
The Sparrows TOK tools are inexpensive for the set, and have been doing everything I need them to.

Yes, going in at an angle and lever off the warding is exactly how I have tried to approach this lock, and with no luck so far.
I do own the sparrows TOK tool set, but they don't fit into the key way.
So later today I will modify one of the z tension tools that came with the tuxedo sett and hope this wil change things up.

[huxleypig]

I love the whole concept of 'unpickable'. Some locks gain this mythical status by their makers promoting it, others get it from years of frustration at the hands of pickers.

I do not think there has been a lock yet that has been truly unpickable. Think about the basic pin tumbler system; the pins should fall back down once they are pushed up because of the springs but because of tolerances this does not happen. The same is true for everything, the design could be perfect on paper but when it comes to reality the lock can never be perfect.

[s0u1h4ck3r]

Lock manufacturers are trying their best to make their products unpickable, and even if we can't say that a truly unpickable pin tumbler lock exists I think they also have to win sometimes and make some of the locks of each model impossible for us to pick just by lucking out on bitting and binding order on some locks.

I still have no luck with my Yale, but I know it wil open for me eventually, with my modified tension tool and the .015 hook I can easily manipulate each pin without touching the others.
Just need some calm and quiet time for my self so I can focus on my picking.

Have a nice weekend all

[TORCH [of KCK]]

As for the question,
Is there any factory locks that can't be picked...
The closest one I can think of,
Would be the "Bowley Lock."
Not saying that it could never be picked...
Because it's not fully open to the public,
(Last I've heard)
And it will take the time of a genius
(Most likely hands on)
To come up with a universal attack,
And the tools that can defeat all of
the production line.

[Raymond]

I grabbed a factory issued pair of keys to re-key a lock Friday and was amazed to find the combo was:
1 1 9 1 1 9. When I noticed this I got out the largest curved pick I had and found that it could not reach the '1' cut without significantly moving the '9' cut. That is while holding the pick up to the key and did not take into account the key way wards. In my notes I just remarked "drill" if locked out for future reference.

[ltdbjd]

Who manufactured that lock? That's quite a permissible MACS.