LP101 Opinions on the licensing issue

[globallockytoo]

i wouldn't be for it either. the government already looks at everyone as terrorists. this would just be another nail in the coffin for hobbyists who currently possess tools. the federal government could seize all shipping records for the past six years and prosecute everyone for possession of locksmith only tools. can we say this is just like our right to bear arms as long as we fill out state federal forms background check then buy the permits pay the fines and then purchase the gun. almost not worth it to me. just what i think would happen imho. people who pick locks don't do it for crime. if i really wanted in somewhere my leg is more than strong enough to kick a door in.

I understand you point of view here, however, perhaps you have never been ripped by a scammer or you have been lucky enough to have only used licensed tradespeople and enjoyed the protections that come with their licensing.

But what do you think about all the other people who have not been as lucky as you?

Do you think that offering the entire marketplace the benefit of equal protection that licensing offers to both the general public and the trade, might be useful?

Hobbiest locksmithing will continue unabated, I think. I dont think there is a law against owning the tools (nor should there be). In states that require licensing, you need to be licensed to use those tools in a professional situation.

Would you go to an unlicensed doctor? Would you use an unlicensed electrician? What about an unlicensed plumber?

Would you drive a car unlicensed?

What is the difference? Licensing simply protects both the professional and the consumer, in my opinion.

[Eyes_Only]

Just be clever. The government can't ristrict and control the possession of "fancy" toothpicks made out of hacksaw blades.

Besides, I'm sure the law will still allow locksmith students to possess "burglery tools". All you gotta do is take the FB course or even better, take a locksmith trade school course in real life if there is one available in your area. Then you have a pretty good reason to own lockpicks.

I really wouldn't worry too much about it. This is America, if immigration laws arn't enforced properly I doubt they'll come down hard with some rock solid law to be a total boner killer for hobbyists.

[TOWCH]

i wouldn't be for it either. the government already looks at everyone as terrorists. this would just be another nail in the coffin for hobbyists who currently possess tools. the federal government could seize all shipping records for the past six years and prosecute everyone for possession of locksmith only tools. can we say this is just like our right to bear arms as long as we fill out state federal forms background check then buy the permits pay the fines and then purchase the gun. almost not worth it to me. just what i think would happen imho. people who pick locks don't do it for crime. if i really wanted in somewhere my leg is more than strong enough to kick a door in.

I understand you point of view here, however, perhaps you have never been ripped by a scammer or you have been lucky enough to have only used licensed tradespeople and enjoyed the protections that come with their licensing.

But what do you think about all the other people who have not been as lucky as you?

Do you think that offering the entire marketplace the benefit of equal protection that licensing offers to both the general public and the trade, might be useful?

Hobbiest locksmithing will continue unabated, I think. I dont think there is a law against owning the tools (nor should there be). In states that require licensing, you need to be licensed to use those tools in a professional situation.

Would you go to an unlicensed doctor? Would you use an unlicensed electrician? What about an unlicensed plumber?

Would you drive a car unlicensed?

What is the difference? Licensing simply protects both the professional and the consumer, in my opinion.

I've been ripped off before.

Twice on craigslist, once in a pond shop, and every paycheck and traffic ticket by the government.

I learned something from craigslist and the pond shop... All I learn from taxes and fines is government sucks, and that I want nothing to do with a bigger one. Government is the only rip off that I can't learn from and therefore stop getting ripped off.

It's a shame that people get ripped off, but: Caveat_emptor. It sucks, but it sucks less than the alternative.


Anyway, it's irrelevant in my case. My state already has licensing, and the way it turned out is more good old boy than it is racketeering. God knows how much of my paycheck goes to it, but I can guarantee it's more than I'll ever get ripped off of by a locksmith.

If a state NEEDS licensing, it will get licensing. There's no sense worrying about it.

[globallockytoo]

i wouldn't be for it either. the government already looks at everyone as terrorists. this would just be another nail in the coffin for hobbyists who currently possess tools. the federal government could seize all shipping records for the past six years and prosecute everyone for possession of locksmith only tools. can we say this is just like our right to bear arms as long as we fill out state federal forms background check then buy the permits pay the fines and then purchase the gun. almost not worth it to me. just what i think would happen imho. people who pick locks don't do it for crime. if i really wanted in somewhere my leg is more than strong enough to kick a door in.

I understand you point of view here, however, perhaps you have never been ripped by a scammer or you have been lucky enough to have only used licensed tradespeople and enjoyed the protections that come with their licensing.

But what do you think about all the other people who have not been as lucky as you?

Do you think that offering the entire marketplace the benefit of equal protection that licensing offers to both the general public and the trade, might be useful?

Hobbiest locksmithing will continue unabated, I think. I dont think there is a law against owning the tools (nor should there be). In states that require licensing, you need to be licensed to use those tools in a professional situation.

Would you go to an unlicensed doctor? Would you use an unlicensed electrician? What about an unlicensed plumber?

Would you drive a car unlicensed?

What is the difference? Licensing simply protects both the professional and the consumer, in my opinion.

I've been ripped off before.

Twice on craigslist, once in a pond shop, and every paycheck and traffic ticket by the government.

I learned something from craigslist and the pond shop... All I learn from taxes and fines is government sucks, and that I want nothing to do with a bigger one. Government is the only rip off that I can't learn from and therefore stop getting ripped off.

It's a shame that people get ripped off, but: Caveat_emptor. It sucks, but it sucks less than the alternative.


Anyway, it's irrelevant in my case. My state already has licensing, and the way it turned out is more good old boy than it is racketeering. God knows how much of my paycheck goes to it, but I can guarantee it's more than I'll ever get ripped off of by a locksmith.

If a state NEEDS licensing, it will get licensing. There's no sense worrying about it.

I understand your point of view TOWCH, but dont necessarily agree with your opinions.

But your last point about not worrying as if they need it they will get it, is a fresh point of view.

If the locksmiths in a state without licensing, dont bother to collectively introduce licensing proposals to government, that support and protect both the trade and the consumer, the likelihood of outside influences (from other trades like security guards, alarm installers, security consultants, electricians, CCTV technicians etc) having a voice in the make up of locksmith legislation will dramatically impact the future earning abilities of locksmiths by restricting the scope of works locksmiths can do. At the same time locksmiths see their trade being eaten away by the big box stores, shoe repairers with key cutting machines, tow truck drivers opening cars, bailiffs repossessing cars without calling a locksmith, dent wizard companies doing transponders, handymen and carpenters installing, repairing, rekeying locks etc etc etc.

My hope as a locksmith professional is to support locksmiths licensing themselves through the government and at the same time maintaining the opportunities for the hobbiest community to make effective contributions to the industry. I believe that this hobbiest community is "now" an integral aspect of the security industry. Hobbiests come from a wide cross section of the marketplace....much wider than the locksmith industry...and as such the opinions of the hobbiest community may more accurately reflect the general marketplaces opinions of the strength of security products available from locksmiths and other security providers.

I'm not saying this stuff to kiss ass.....I'm realising that without the discussions that take place here and other forums....the security industry might not realistically be able to accurately judge the performance of their products.