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"Do Not Duplicate" - Legality of Coping a DND Key?

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Postby n2oah » 4 May 2008 23:11

globallockytoo wrote:
n2oah wrote:
WOT wrote:As far as the US is concerned, unless visibly obvious but you feel it is questionable, just ask if the key belongs to something Postal Service or DoD related. If it is, don't duplicate it.


Or just don't take it to a locksmith to duplicate it.



I have many blanks in my truck with "duplication prohibited" on them (mostly Best profiles of course)......if they are available for purchase as blanks by anyone....why shouldnt locksmiths duplicate them for anyone?


You totally missed the point of my post.
"Lockpicking is what robbing is all about!" says Jim King.
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Postby keyman1970 » 9 May 2008 16:47

these law fall far short of abrhams vs leeson where the former duplicated a key profile and then the key the court ruling on this was that keys cannot be pateted only add ons eg a pin on a spring as in new yales
or the head so basically if your key head isnt the same as the key head on the duplicated key no one federal or local can hold you to account.

BUT if the duplicate is used in the commision of a crime or terrorist act you are fully accountable under other acts.so its the classic yes you can but no you can't catch 22.
civle action for duplication is nigh on impossable in the states as well as in europe but they can get you for other charges criminally so go carefull
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Postby WOT » 9 May 2008 19:10

keyman1970 wrote:these law fall far short of abrhams vs leeson where the former duplicated a key profile and then the key the court ruling on this was that keys cannot be pateted only add ons eg a pin on a spring as in new yales
or the head so basically if your key head isnt the same as the key head on the duplicated key no one federal or local can hold you to account.

BUT if the duplicate is used in the commision of a crime or terrorist act you are fully accountable under other acts.so its the classic yes you can but no you can't catch 22.
civle action for duplication is nigh on impossable in the states as well as in europe but they can get you for other charges criminally so go carefull


Then what difference does it make if it's DND stamped Primus whose patent is now expired or a plain KW1 since duplicating either is the same legally?

It's a common practice for home owner to tend a key to a contractor's representative for unsupervised access to their house. When you're asked to duplicate a KW1, how do you know it's not one of them making a copy for himself during lunch break?

Look at all the Atlas, Brinks, etc home locks. Many are based on Kwikset system and have the same basic headshape as KW1. Unless key ornamental design can be demonstrated to be a concern for the user, I don't believe it is patentable.
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Postby keyman1970 » 10 May 2008 4:43

i agree but thats the the ruling until some one with a lot more money than me challenges it at present all patends are on add ons and head shape not blade .one duh after the other have looked into this quiet extensivly we had a major supplier of dnd keys go belly up then hundred s of customers screaming to get duplicate .we then suffered the usual scare storeys now we duplicat on a modified blank with a different head .
the guy that bought the system and rights from liqidator tried to scare us my lawyer laughed at him because he had bought the head only so as we were using a different head he couldn't touch us.

make sense ... i doubt it but usefull info non the less
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Postby Eyes_Only » 10 May 2008 7:22

If a cop comes into our shop asking us to duplicate a DND key we usually do it for them. :lol:
If a lock is a puzzle, then its key is the complete picture
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Postby WOT » 10 May 2008 7:30

The head *IS* allowed to be the same shape. A generic SC1 is shaped just like Schlage Lock Co. 35-100C. The only thing a third party supplier can not do without authorization is imprint SCHLAGE on it.

Here in the US laws and commercial codes are different. There are surely some overlaps, but definitely not the same.

In absence of relevant regulations, this is what I see...
Image
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Postby WOT » 10 May 2008 7:31

WOT wrote:Here in the US laws and commercial codes are different. There are surely some overlaps, but definitely not the same.

Relative to the United Kingdom of Great Britain that is.
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