How I got scammed

[Legion303]

Completia: moved your post to mod forum for your protection, please PM a mod if you need the full text of it to PM people.

-steve

[Buggs41]

Ummm, what did I miss? Inquiring minds want to know.

[barbarian]

You missed someone being too honest.

[unlisted]

Trust me, don't worry about it, I missed it as well.

[Legion303]

Sorry, you'll have to PM completia for details. :P

completia: where are you located? It's got to be a pretty small (and very rural) town if you're the only lockie around.

-steve

[wifiuk]

this is what worries me about starting a locksmith business, what happens if i open the door and they dont want to pay? especially as i would be new at it, not as much experiance and older locksmiths with more experiance, tricks of the trade and all that.
Could i get them to sign a form that says something like " if the customer doesnt pay, i can send bailiff's in to recover amount due" or something like that, or is that too heavy handed??

[TheSkyer]

It can be done.

What wories me most of them time is lockout situations in which the customer doesn not cary his / her ID. Mostly they just left it in the house they locked themself out. However it could of course also be a load of cown poopoo and they are just trying to gain entry to a house they do not own.

I usualy just tell my customers to show me where they left their keys and ID and if they find them fairly quickly there's no problem, however it still bothers me you are never 100000% sure someone owns whatever you are picking.

[barbarian]

I knew a guy well that had a trucking company for 30 years. Small jobs, a load or two of rock for your driveway, maybe a load of topsoil for the garden. Getting paid was a never ending problem for him. He tried lawyers, collection companies, threats, everything he could think of. If the customer isn't going to pay you, then it's very hard to collect a small amount. Look at child support payments. Court ordered, with the legal system in place to enforce it. People still default on the payments, and it's their kid !

Lawyer fees and small claims cost money. The customer can sign anything you give them, but when they don't pay, what do you do ? The idea that the local cops will intimidate the customer for you, is something I have never seen work. Remember this person probably makes it a habit to not pay. They know all the tricks you can use, and what to respond to each.

I would collect the money first. I would explain that several customers had defaulted on payment, and your boss made it a company policy. If they don't have money, get their car keys or drivers license or cell phone to hold as collateral. The idea of blocking the door, or stepping into the house and not leaving is very dangerous. Ask your lawyer about the legality of that.

I put myself in place of the person that is locked out, but glad to pay. If the lockie suggested that I needed cash, I would go to a bank machine and pay him, if he could take a credit card all the better. I would pay him before he left, or I would drive to his shop the next day and pay him there.

Don't like the idea of asking for payment first ? How do you like the idea of doing the job for free ? Great business model.

[wifiuk]

but what if all thier id or money, keys , whatnot is inside the house, or so they say??
what can you hold as colateral? thier shoes ??

What if you ask for thier home phone number, then call it from the mobile and listen to see if it rings ??

[barbarian]

So how do you know the person really lives there and has a legal right to be in the house ? Tough question.

Separate from the payment question, but kinda related.

How did they contact you ? Are the neighbors home to vouch for them ? They have no ID. and no phone, and no car. I would call the cops and get them involved, not for assurance of payment, but just so you know it's not a ex-husband/wife looking to settle a score. Maybe this person has a problem getting in because the locks were changed to keep them out.

[TheSkyer]

To be blunt, in Holland the cops don't care about that kinda stuff. Nor do we have a sheriff / deputy which will show up if necessary

[adrenalynn]

Around these parts, if you're licensed, it's relatively easy to take a mechanics lien against the property. If they own the house, the bank will encourage them pretty strongly to make good on that debt. Your lien overrides the bank's.

[michaelspaz]

I feel as if the end of a good story has been yanked out from under me. How did he get the money!?!

Just as a side suggestion for car lockouts...if your customers are shady enough to have to ask them to step back, why not just put a boot on their car wheel before you open the car up? That way they are locked in place and are forced to pay once they have their wallets back.

A explanation before hand of how you have been shafted will ensure you don't seem unprofessional, as well.

[FarmerFreak]

Why not put a boot on the car? Well, it is all about reading the customer. Are they honest or dishonest? If they are dishonest they will probably come up with some story about how you broke the brakes or whatever they can come up with if you put a boot on the car. You should really want as few of these conversations as possible. If they are honest, they probably won't like the way you "trapped" them there, and will probably call someone else next time.

Also, about asking the customer to stand back for a second, or explaining how I/we have been shafted in the past.. Again it is about reading the customer. Typically the only ones that I am worried about are the ones that keep saying that they need to be somewhere in 5 min. or something like that. If it sounds like their world is going to fall apart if they don't get their then you can conclude that you as "the locksmith comes second" compared to getting wherever they need to go. So, experience has taught me that explaining will just take time and that will upset the honest customer. Asking them to stand back for a second is usually no big deal. If they don't want to step back, then you can go on to explain since you may not be able to trust this person, ie reading the customer. Keep in mind that they are relying on you to help them. And there is a certain amount of trust that needs to be involved. If they keep pushing those lines of trust back and back. You should walk away from the job.

So, do I ask all my auto lockout customers to stand back? NO, absolutely not. It is actually very rare that I do it. Most customers worlds aren't going to fall apart if they are a few minutes late, or simply are in no hurry at all. Since they have been locked out they have all ready made different plans.

There are other honest/dishonest things to look out for too. But they are typically on a case by case basis. Basically the more customers you help both good and bad, is good for your experience in judging a customers character. And you will want to give the obviously honest customers the fastest service (you will always need to get picture ID and record the vin# or plate#), and take precautions with the ones that somehow seem dishonest. Fortunately there are very few dishonest people, and even fewer that don't show any signs that you can read.

I hope that helps. Or maybe I was just rambling on and on. Oh well.

[completia]

I posted how I got paid, but it got removed.