Books regarding lock picking?

[Squelchtone]

Lock picking is still kind of new to me, so I don't have much invested in it - I did add that book to my cart on Amazon though (along with an American 5200). Pretty much my whole investment up till now is in locks.

I agree that hobbies, in general, are expensive though. My main hobby is photography, and I dump tons of money into that.

Have any of you guys read this book?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/039807 ... PDKIKX0DER

Expensive for a book ($220), but according to the reviews it seems to be the definitive book on locks. I'm debating whether or not that would be a worthy investment for a hobbyist (my birthday is in a few weeks, that might make a great gift to myself, lol).

One thing that I think is overlooked a lot (in many subjects) is that you will generally find better information in a book than you will online. You know, copyrights and all that. Authors that take the time to do their research tend to not like their hard work being made free online.

LSS is the bible! Marc Tobias is a member here if I'm not mistaken, but he does not post much. I bought that book from him on a 6 CD set (easier to use Search that way) but I have always wanted the hard cover edition. Good point on solid information being found in a book, versus written by us armchair experts on a forum =)

Squelchtone

[Josh66]

Good point on solid information being found in a book, versus written by us armchair experts on a forum =)

Squelchtone

Not trying to say that forums aren't an excellent source of information - but sometimes the real 'secrets' can only be found in an actual paper book.

Wikipedia is a perfect example. It's great for general, watered down information - but they wouldn't be able to share any proprietary knowledge without infringing on somebody's copyright. Assuming that person found out about it, it would get taken down very quickly.

There's lots of stuff out there that has been made available to the public (MIT lockpicking guide, for example), but for $220 a copy I'm thinking Tobias' book probably has a few things in it that can't be found elsewhere... Hoping so, anyway.

[Moon President]

Good point on solid information being found in a book, versus written by us armchair experts on a forum =)

Squelchtone

Not trying to say that forums aren't an excellent source of information - but sometimes the real 'secrets' can only be found in an actual paper book.

Wikipedia is a perfect example. It's great for general, watered down information - but they wouldn't be able to share any proprietary knowledge without infringing on somebody's copyright. Assuming that person found out about it, it would get taken down very quickly.

There's lots of stuff out there that has been made available to the public (MIT lockpicking guide, for example), but for $220 a copy I'm thinking Tobias' book probably has a few things in it that can't be found elsewhere... Hoping so, anyway.

You're forgetting the fact that even though lock picking is a hobby for you and most people here, it could also be used maliciously, and therefore the information pertaining to this subject will not be easy to find. It's not about authors or copyright laws to a great extent, it's mostly about actual laws. The internet, in general, is not a good source for information as of yet; and any academic will tell you that wikipedia is not a credible source of any information. In my younger years, I've taken joy in vandalizing wikipedia entries.

But you're right, the only reason I've posted asking about books is because that is where the real information lies. As far as paying $220 for a book, although nothing is wrong with that, there is always the alternative is scouting your local used book stores for a copy. I will do the same shortly, but I don't have a comprehensive list of literature to research yet.

Thank you all for your suggestions and co-operation

[Moon President]

Also, I have a couple of questions for the experienced members of this board.

What is the proper term for someone who picks locks? And also, I've read about pick guns. How effective are they, who uses them (e.g. locksmiths, law enforcement, etc) are they difficult to use, and do the real connoisseurs of lock picking look down on the use of pick guns?

Thank you in advance

[Tori]

My husband is an avid locksport enthusiast while I’m a writer and he advised me of your post. I hear about hobby picking frequently, to the point of absurdity. You asked about getting a book on the subject but getting different recommendations. Keep in mind, like writers having preferences as to which book on writing techniques is the best, hobby pickers have wildly varying opinions as to what are the best books or methods to learn to pick locks, and what are the best equipment or locks to learn with. You’re going to have to look at who’s posting, their relative experience, or what’s simply most convenient or logical for you.

As to judging the experience of someone you don’t know if they don’t have publication credentials, you can look at how long or the number of posts they have on lockpicking101 or other lockpicking forums; articles in NDE Magazine or other locksmithing periodicals; or just how professional or knowledgeable their response sounds. Also be wary if they’re trying to sell you something.

As to the internet not being a good source of information, I don’t say this often, but you’re simply wrong. Granted, you have to be careful and check your sources. My degree is in zoology and, like many other scientific fields, the information in printed textbooks is outdated before it’s printed. This has been the case since the 1980’s. Sometimes the best and most current information is only available online. I don’t pick locks as a rule. I had to learn in self-defense of my husband and son. My understanding of the sport is that it’s like a mini arms-race, with the lock manufacturers constantly trying to come up with the ‘unpickable’ lock, and those persistent idiots determined to find a way to pick them anyway.

If you’re really interested in learning to pick locks, great. If you just need to learn for developing a character or plot line, you already have the resources and contacts you need from the recommendations in this thread. Also, like writing or riding a bike, lockpicking isn't something you can learn from reading a book. You have to practice, practice, practice.

[MortimerDuke]

My degree is in zoology and, like many other scientific fields, the information in printed textbooks is outdated before it’s printed. This has been the case since the 1980’s.

What happened in the 1980's? Did the pace of scientific discovery accelerate or did the textbook publishing cycle slow down?

[Squelchtone]

My degree is in zoology and, like many other scientific fields, the information in printed textbooks is outdated before it’s printed. This has been the case since the 1980’s.

What happened in the 1980's? Did the pace of scientific discovery accelerate or did the textbook publishing cycle slow down?

I believe I have the answer..




love that show, that guy's hair is epic.
Squelchtone

[MortimerDuke]

Ha! That's awesome! Looks like Uncle Rico talking about the state championship game after he's had a doob!

[Josh66]

love that show, that guy's hair is epic.

I can never remember that guy's name - but when you say "the guy with the crazy hair", everyone knows who you're talking about.

[Tori]

I believe I have the answer..

love that show, that guy's hair is epic.
Squelchtone

Hubby has mentioned you, Squelchtone, and I always like to see his playmates. Love the hair.

About the 80's, I started college in the 80's so that's when I got treated to long tirades from my professors about the problem of textbooks being out of date. And also got treated to the practice of not being able to buy used ones or sell mine because they're published yearly. It was fun. I mean expensive. I can't say when this problem started, MortimerDuke, but the internet is at your fingertips if you want to research it.

[MortimerDuke]

I can't say when this problem started, MortimerDuke, but the internet is at your fingertips if you want to research it.

I'll get right on it, right after I finish the new issue of NDE Magazine.

[MarkMcGrath]

The internet is fine and dandy, but the problem is the internet is like a grabage dump full of hermits. A whole bunch of useless crap and a few select items of goodness in hidden piles gaurded by misers. Books generally are anaylized attacked and corrected by peers in the field that keep most books on topic, and not full of fluff. Then again the net tells me the small holes on the locks are the easy access points and a wire will allow you to open any lock with a weep hole.

[MBI]

What happened in the 1980's? Did the pace of scientific discovery accelerate or did the textbook publishing cycle slow down?

Who knows when the rate of scientific advancement outpaced the publishing industry, but at some point it was inevitable. There's not much question that scientific knowledge is experiencing exponential growth, at least in some areas.

In paraphrasing Bernard of Chartres, a philospher who was referenced in Metalogicon (pub. 1159), Sir Isaac Newton said "If I have seen further it is by standing on ye sholders of Giants."
Almost a thousand years ago they recognized the trend of mankind's body of knowledge building upon itself. It's staggering to think how far we've come since then, and how far we might still go in another thousand years.

As for lock books, MacGyver101 just posted an impressive update to his lock collection today, including his collection of lock related books, listed here:

Ancient Locks: The Evolutionary Development of the Lock and Key (Scott Klemm)
A.C. Hobbs: A Man of Genius (Fincher)
George Price: Victorian Champion of the Security Trade (Pat Tempest)
Early Locks and Lockmakers of America (Thomas Hennessy)
American Genius: Nineteenth Century Bank Locks and Time Locks (David Erroll)
The Complete Book of Locks and Locksmithing (Bill Phillips)
Locks, Safes and Security (Marc Tobias)
High-Security Mechanical Locks (Graham Pulford)
Impressioning (Oliver Diederichsen)
Practical Lock Picking (Deviant Ollam)
Open in Thirty Seconds (Marc Tobias, Tobias Bluzimanis)
The Art of Manipulation (Lentz, Kenton)
The Fifteen Minute Safe Opening Technique (Jake Jakubuwski)
Bread and Butter (Dave McOmie)
Drilling Safes (The National Locksmith)

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=49824&p=403145#p403145

The internet is fine and dandy, but the problem is the internet is like a grabage dump full of hermits. A whole bunch of useless crap and a few select items of goodness in hidden piles gaurded by misers. Books generally are anaylized attacked and corrected by peers in the field that keep most books on topic, and not full of fluff. Then again the net tells me the small holes on the locks are the easy access points and a wire will allow you to open any lock with a weep hole.

I agree with this, in part. The web is full of a lot of crap that has to be sifted in order to find the gems, but I've also seen quite a bit of apocryphal drivel published as fact in books, that had no business ever making it into the printed medium. And while the overall accuracy rate is almost surely higher in print than online, the danger lies in the assumption most people seem to hold that if it's printed in a book, it MUST be true.

Given that locksmithing has historically been a very closed profession, making every attempt to keep it's "secrets" hidden for generations, even with an impressive list of titles such as have been collected by MacGyver101 I still think that there is more information available online than in print on lockpicking and related subjects. Some would even say that it's the internet itself that's responsible for finally opening to the public this previously closed subject. I'm not suggesting to the original poster than he not invest some money in a few good books, but don't discount the immense quantity of knowledge that is held in this forum alone, free of charge, let alone in all the other sources available online.

*Disclaimer: this post is just one know-it-all's self-righteous opinion.
Feel free to disregard at your leisure.

[dmux]

I heard Deviant has a new book coming out or it may already be out. I think it is about impressioning though. Not sure...

[Legion303]

don't discount the immense quantity of knowledge that is held in this forum alone, free of charge, let alone in all the other sources available online.

I can tell you right now that there is original research here in the Advanced section that is not available in print form anywhere else.

-steve