Filing barrel

[lunchb0x]

If you get hold of some new Abus 570 locks have a look at the tops of the plugs, there is a slight flat spot on them.

Another trick is using a small drill bit a little larger than the diameter of the pins, use it to put a small angle on the inside of the pin hole, this will help with worn bottom pins and is better than filing the plug.

If you get a key put it on the table then place a pin laying down in one of the cuts, you can see that the tip of the pin is smaller than the width of the cut on the key, you can file the pin down till the edges of the pin touch on the ramps on the key, do not file them any further.... it's a bit hard to explain, do you understand what I mean??

[minifhncc]

If you get hold of some new Abus 570 locks have a look at the tops of the plugs, there is a slight flat spot on them.

Yes I have a few of those. I think I filed them too when I rekeyed them

[quoteo]Another trick is using a small drill bit a little larger than the diameter of the pins, use it to put a small angle on the inside of the pin hole, this will help with worn bottom pins and is better than filing the plug.[/quote]
Thanks for the tip. But how does this help? I always use new bottom pins when rekeying.

If you get a key put it on the table then place a pin laying down in one of the cuts, you can see that the tip of the pin is smaller than the width of the cut on the key, you can file the pin down till the edges of the pin touch on the ramps on the key, do not file them any further.... it's a bit hard to explain, do you understand what I mean??

Thanks for the tip. Yes I do understand what you mean. I never thought of that I'll try it out.

I just ordered a 0.005" pin kit. So I'll see how I go with that. I take it that you use a 0.005" kit too? (It seems the most common in Australia, presumably because Lockwood depths are supposed to go up in increments of 0.015, starting from 0.15)

Thanks again

[lunchb0x]

Yes, I use .005" pins, I have only worked at a couple of places that also use .003" pins.

by using the drill bit to put a bit of an angle on the inside of the pins hole it gives the top pin a ramp instead of the square edges, this way you can slightly increase the tolerance without having to file the pins or use bottom pins as top pins.

I have been a bit flat out lately and the work bench is a mess if if you like I can try take some photos to show what I mean.

[minifhncc]

Yes, I use .005" pins, I have only worked at a couple of places that also use .003" pins.

What do you think about the .003" pins? Given that Lockwood depths are in multiples of .005" do you think .003" pins will work without any trouble? I hardly rekey worn keys (always code cut them).

by using the drill bit to put a bit of an angle on the inside of the pins hole it gives the top pin a ramp instead of the square edges, this way you can slightly increase the tolerance without having to file the pins or use bottom pins as top pins.

Okay yes. I do get what you mean. Thanks for that. I'll try it out later. No need for photos.

[minifhncc]

Also, how often do you come across a situation where the pin size that is supposed to be used does not work 100% smoothly? e.g. For Lockwood if the key is cut to code 12345 and a #1 pin (0.15"), #2 (.165") ... is used but it clicks a bit. Do you often use 0.005 or 0.01 higher?

I often rekey Lockwood, Brava and BDS locks.

[minifhncc]

By the way, I'm referring to a situation where a code cut key is used for rekeying (and not a worn key).

[lunchb0x]

Go the 005" pins, they will work a lot better. I don't do a lot of domestic stuff so I don't think it is worth me having a .003" kit, especially when 90% is .005" and a little file on the bottom of a .005' pin will make it work smoothly anyway. the difference is only going to be .001", not much to take of the pin to make it work.

Also with the drill bit, if you have access to a bench grinder grind a small flat spot on the cutting edge of the drill bit, so instead if the cutting edge being pointy it will have a flat cutting edge, this is really good when drilling soft metals. The drill bit will cut into the metal just as easy but it wont bite and take large chunks out, gives you a much nicer finish.

[minifhncc]

Also I sometimes rekey Gainsborough (Silca TE2 keyway) locks. I'd assume that the .003" pins would be better for these?

[minifhncc]

Go the 005" pins, they will work a lot better.

Yeah alright. It seems though that in the US the .003" pin sizes are preferred (judging by the posts here). I guess that's because many of the products made there aren't .003". Could anyone from the USA clarify? (just for my own interests sake)

I don't do a lot of domestic stuff

Does that mean primarily deal with masterkeying jobs, restricted keying, etc?

Also with the drill bit, if you have access to a bench grinder grind a small flat spot on the cutting edge of the drill bit, so instead if the cutting edge being pointy it will have a flat cutting edge, this is really good when drilling soft metals. The drill bit will cut into the metal just as easy but it wont bite and take large chunks out, gives you a much nicer finish.

Thanks for the tip.

[lunchb0x]

Also I sometimes rekey Gainsborough (Silca TE2 keyway) locks. I'd assume that the .003" pins would be better for these?

As you have probably worked out some of the older Gainsboroough locks use a smaller diameter pin so LAB ones wont work, you can drill out the plug and they will work but the heights will still be wrong. LSC have 2 kits avaliable, they both look like they will have the same stuff in them, one of them around $300, the other is around $160
.

Does that mean primarily deal with masterkeying jobs, restricted keying, etc?

[/quote]

Mostly Auto and safe work, any Commercial stuff I do is also mostly Restricted systems but only on the install side.

[Altashot]

In my opinion, reaming the pin chambers with a drill bit is a short cut. The end result is basically the same as filling the plug. You get a "sloppy" cylinder. I consider that inappropriate too. If the cylinder feels "clicky", the pin are too short. Period. No amount of filling/reaming will lengthen the pins. The problem here is the pins. Not the plug, not the chambers, not the cylinder, the pins. Like anything else, the problem must be fixed at the source. Don't fix a problem by creating another one...

I have a 0.005 Lab kit and I find that I can pin-up any cylinder to work very smoothly. I find the 0.003 kits to be almost too much...

My $0.02

M.

[cledry]

There are a couple of ways to make corrections. However one way is common amongst locksmiths. It is easy for the casual hobbyist to say what should be done, but they aren't earning a living doing this. I have never heard of filing the bottom of the pin either, I don't see why it wouldn't work but turning a pin upside down will make the point sit higher than normal.

The accepted way when keying to an existing key with multiple copies of the key in circulation is to chamfer the pin holes slightly with a countersink. The reason this is done is it prevents call backs. Often some keys will be miscut or worn more than others. So you key to factory depths and by chamfering the pin holes slightly you also account for wear and some miscut keys. Obviously the best solution is to cut all new keys to factory specs, but in a real world this sometimes isn't possible. Plus if the previous locksmith adjusted the pins to account for a worn key then a newly cut code key may be too tight to work in those locks.

Things you shouldn't do, but I have witnessed. Filing the top of the plug, although Weiser locks came this way. Using bottom pins in the bible with the points down. Using your impressioning file to make gouges across the plug.

[minifhncc]

I have never heard of filing the bottom of the pin either, I don't see why it wouldn't work but turning a pin upside down will make the point sit higher than normal.

I don't think he's saying that one should turn it upside down.

I think he's saying that one should file the pointy bit on the pin and place it normally. Obviously you can only file off a certain depth as it would start touching the ramped parts of the key (the pin should only stay in contact with the flat part).

[lunchb0x]

I have never heard of filing the bottom of the pin either, I don't see why it wouldn't work but turning a pin upside down will make the point sit higher than normal.

I don't think he's saying that one should turn it upside down.

I think he's saying that one should file the pointy bit on the pin and place it normally. Obviously you can only file off a certain depth as it would start touching the ramped parts of the key (the pin should only stay in contact with the flat part).

Yes, that's correct. File a little off the tip of the pin, file too much and the pin will rest on the ramps instead of the tip of the pin.

[cledry]

I have never heard of filing the bottom of the pin either, I don't see why it wouldn't work but turning a pin upside down will make the point sit higher than normal.

I don't think he's saying that one should turn it upside down.

I think he's saying that one should file the pointy bit on the pin and place it normally. Obviously you can only file off a certain depth as it would start touching the ramped parts of the key (the pin should only stay in contact with the flat part).

Yes, that's correct. File a little off the tip of the pin, file too much and the pin will rest on the ramps instead of the tip of the pin.

Yes, I understood what you were saying. You turn the pin upside down and file a bit off the point and then put it back in the right way, but you have no way to gauge how much to remove as the pin when upside down won't rest at the correct height. I have to ask why do this and not remove it from the top of the pin? I've never had a problem removing material from the top, it removes a bit of the bevel but operationally it works smoothly.