Russwin & Corbin keyways

[sheldonl]

To answer your last question, RU46 is the blank that corresponds with the D1 keyway.

Thank you. So now I can pose my direct question: "Why is the D1 Keyway no longer offered on new hardware?" And: "when was ithe D1 keyway phased out?"
It seems that the D1 keyway is only used to provide keys for an older system. Why does Russwin (ASSA Abloy) no longer offer it as a keying option for new construction?

My finall question: "Does the D1 keyway also refer to the; RU46, C088, and C089 keyway?" Thanks.

[jeffmoss26]

You will have to ask Corbin/Russwin why they do not offer the D1 keyway as their stock keyway anymore. Perhaps they have some formula as to the life of a keyway before they decide to move to another. I do not know that answer.
Like I said before, the keyway was phased out as the STOCK keyway in 1993.

AGAIN, as I explained in my first post. RU46, CO88, and CO89 ARE NOT KEYWAYS. They are BLANKS.
RU46 blank = Russwin D1 keyway, 6 pin
CO88 blank = Corbin 60 keyway, 6 pin
CO89 blank = Corbin 59AB keyway, 6 pin

I have given you the link to the Corbin Russwin cylinder manual, everything I have told you is in there. You have the tools, perhaps you can do a bit of your own research as well.

[sheldonl]

You will have to ask Corbin/Russwin why they do not offer the D1 keyway as their stock keyway anymore. Perhaps they have some formula as to the life of a keyway before they decide to move to another. I do not know that answer.
Like I said before, the keyway was phased out as the STOCK keyway in 1993.

AGAIN, as I explained in my first post. RU46, CO88, and CO89 ARE NOT KEYWAYS. They are BLANKS.
RU46 blank = Russwin D1 keyway, 6 pin
CO88 blank = Corbin 60 keyway, 6 pin
CO89 blank = Corbin 59AB keyway, 6 pin

I have given you the link to the Corbin Russwin cylinder manual, everything I have told you is in there. You have the tools, perhaps you can do a bit of your own research as well.

Thank you. Perhaps I will contact CorbinRusswin directly, tey might even have a company historian on staff.

Could you please clarify what you ment by your statement: " Like I said before, the keyway was phased out as the STOCK keyway in 1993."

Thank you.

[jeffmoss26]

Stock keyway means the default keyway a locksmith will get when they order a lock.
In other words, from 1965-1993, if a locksmith ordered a Russwin lock, it would be the D1 keyway unless they specified otherwise.

[2octops]

A lot of manufacturers change out the stock keyway periodically for multiple reasons.

Sometimes it's a patent expiring, sometimes it's a security upgrade and sometimes it's a money thing. Usually it's a money thing.

Let's take your school for example. If the keyway that the building is currently on is the stock keyway for the manufacturer, then when building renovations are made or hardware is replaced, then your school would simply order a new lock.

If your building is on an old keyway that is no longer stock, then your school has options. They either can order new locks with the new stock keyway and have 2 sets of keys, order new locks AND CYLINDERS IN THE OLD KEYWAY (more money for the mfr) or they can just replace everything with the new stock keyway (even more money for the mfg).

Most large buildings would not choose option 1. Most will choose between 2 and 3 depending on what their plans are.

The same goes for almost everything produced today. Look at the things currently around you. How many that were actually originally designed many years ago still look like they did back then. Updating design is just a way to make consumers spend more money.

[sheldonl]

Sometimes it's a patent expiring, sometimes it's a security upgrade and sometimes it's a money thing. Usually it's a money thing.

Let's take your school for example. If the keyway that the building is currently on is the stock keyway for the manufacturer, then when building renovations are made or hardware is replaced, then your school would simply order a new lock.


The same goes for almost everything produced today. Look at the things currently around you. How many that were actually originally designed many years ago still look like they did back then. Updating design is just a way to make consumers spend more money.

What is interesting is that the school/church was built in 1954, and still continues to utilize a RU46 key system. Each room has its own key, while a master key opens all in the system. Ftrom what I can tell they continue to use the Russwin 46 system, as they are able to find blanks to support the system.

[jeffmoss26]

RU46 is an extremely common aftermarket blank. They should not have any trouble getting keys made.
If their keying system works, why change it?

[sheldonl]

RU46 is an extremely common aftermarket blank. They should not have any trouble getting keys made.
If their keying system works, why change it?

True, good point. I know they have changed some hardware to schlage primus, as well.

This is a bit off topic, but just out of curiosity, you stated: "RU46 is an extremely common aftermarket blank.". What are some of the rare key blanks that are hard to find?

I'm only a high school student, so I would it interesting to see what locksmiths consider the "rare" key blanks. Thanks.

[MBI]

What are some of the rare key blanks that are hard to find?
I'm only a high school student, so I would it interesting to see what locksmiths consider the "rare" key blanks. Thanks.

I'd LOVE to get at least one #42 "universal" blank. I've never been able to get my hands on any. Seen some low-res pics, but nothing good enough that I could use it to mill my own copies. They're very restricted.

[sheldonl]

What are some of the rare key blanks that are hard to find?
I'm only a high school student, so I would it interesting to see what locksmiths consider the "rare" key blanks. Thanks.

I'd LOVE to get at least one #42 "universal" blank. I've never been able to get my hands on any. Seen some low-res pics, but nothing good enough that I could use it to mill my own copies. They're very restricted.

What is a # 42 "universal blank"? I've never heard off it.

Thanks for the example. Perhaps others here will share what they consider to be ; "rare blanks".

[averagejoe]

The #42 is a multiplex blank that works for multiple keyways made by different manufacturers. It does not work for all locks by all manufacturers due to different additions that some manufactures add to specifically prevent the use of the #42. This is why it is extremely restricted and its use is shunned by most of the locksport community.

[Sinifar]

Key profiles / keyways are basically the same thing. In the trade we refer to them by the key blank number. That tells the working smith which format he needs to key into, say 5 or 6 pin. Since most cylinders are drilled 6 pin, they can be pinned 5 pin.

A few after market cylinders made by Ilco, and sold under many brands like LSDA are drilled 7 pin especially in 1 1/4" mortise cylinders. Try figuring out if there is a 7 pin Schlage C ..... WORSE it comes pinned for 5, now make the rookie mistake, and stuff a top pin in # 7 instead of #6 and have the whole thing lock up solidly as the top pin drops into an empty chamber. YOU get it out!!!

One of the earliest lessons in the correspondence courses teaches key blanks. This is so you get the idea of how the industry refers to things.

AS far as changes in factory issued current keyways -- MOST change every few years, or not at all.

Yale has used the "11" keyway forever, this is a Y2, or 6 pin common Yale. One can pin this either to 5 or 6, as in Y1, or Y2.

Schlage used to be mostly 5 pin, even in commercial back in the day, but in the 70's went to mostly 6 pin format for commercial while retaining 5 pin for residential. All "F" series are 5 pin, die cast cylinders are made by Strattec. Don't ask, we had a class over there one time, and there were tons of the Schlage F line cylinders sitting around in the baskets.

Schlage also used to have C for the residential, and F for the commercial. In about 1980 or so they dropped F and went to E for the commercial keyway. Today all commercial are coming out in Everest C123, and worse it is the Modular cylinder, which will not take the Classic cylinders due to manufacturing changes. There is a work around, so ask me if you are stuck trying to get a "C" classic cylinder into a modular housing.

Going around and around with the public is a waste of time, they will never understand how this industry works, or why things change. NOR why we refer to things as we do, nor what it means in the long run. Much of this trade is shorthand (vernacular) because that is the way the insiders who have to work with it daily refer to things.

Explain to them the changes in the car lock work.

From discs, to pins, back to discs, to VATS to today's transponder keys. Explain what "bicycle cables" means. Why they no longer have rods inside the doors - or worse, everything is now electronic, including key operated switches instead of rod connected devices.

Which is why today if you are an automotive smith, you use the "long reach" tools and other things to get inside the car and flip the thing open by manipulating something on the inside of the door - working with a "Slim JIM" is going to cost you big time today. AND really forget using a coat hanger. How cave man are you?

The trade is evolving, and we as tradesmen have to evolve with it. Either you learn the craft, and roll with the changes or get buried in it.

Don't feed the troll.

Finally, ask yourself - WHY is a high school kid worried about the locks? Most high school kids in the 14 school districts we work in have no clue as to what we are doing in the place except seeing what we work on, and I don't do much around them except take out locks, stuff in locks, and service them / get things working right. I would never do anything around teens which could give them a clue as to how the thing actually works, much less show them, via tools or techniques, how to do things. The young get ideas if you follow my line.

-- Sinifar --

[dll932]

One reason a company may stop issuing cylinders with a certain keyway is that when the patent runs out they can pretty much be made by any company. If they sell new keyways they still have exclusivity. For some (like Me deco) it's a matter of continued security if the keys are restricted.

[Evan]

One reason a company may stop issuing cylinders with a certain keyway is that when the patent runs out they can pretty much be made by any company. If they sell new keyways they still have exclusivity. For some (like Me deco) it's a matter of continued security if the keys are restricted.

@dll932:

Retiring a keyway from being the "stock" keyway does not mean that the factory has stopped issuing cylinders on that keyway, it just means it won't be shipped as the "stock" product when an order comes in for locks with no keyway specified... You can still order it and it will be shipped to you, you just have to ask specifically for it to obtain it...

Keyways have a few types:

"Stock" = the default keyway a factory ships when no selection is made by the customer
"Patented" = a keyway with patent protection in place
"Restricted" = a keyway which while not protected by a patent is limited in its use by the factory
"Open" = an unrestricted keyway which is available by order
"Discontinued" = a keyway which the factory will only continue to offer to customers who have registered keying systems on those keyways, no new systems will be created

The stock keyways are eventually changed to allow the factory to sell a product which will be slightly more secure as it is not on a keyway as common place as say the Schlage "C"...

~~ Evan

[keesha]

I have a 67AB Key that I want to get duplicated - what generic key does that equate to? For example, like Ilco, Axxess, etc.