Medeco Biaxial vs Schlage Primus vs Scorpion CX-5

[n2oah]

No, it is a rumor that Emhart locks have been discontinued. A Corbin rep told me that they are still produced. There is also rumor of some ordeal with Medeco and Emhart, but I am not sure if this is true.

[workstation]

Aaah. That's interesting. I was going by this: http://www.yalesecurity.com/library/bulletins/pdf/Announcement/Corbin_Russwin/47133%2Epdf.

"Some ordeal"? What, like trial by combat or something?
Seriously though, I don't know what you mean by that. Will you elaborate?

[n2oah]

"Some ordeal"? What, like trial by combat or something?
Seriously though, I don't know what you mean by that. Will you elaborate?

Supposidly Corbin had to pay royalties to Medeco because infringement of a patent or something

[workstation]

Understood. Thanks a lot.

Considered as a whole, Medeco- and Emhart locks obviously work quite differently, so I wonder whether it was the form of the key that infringed the patent, or maybe some specific part of the cylinder mechanism?

Or did Corbin Emhart just capitulate?

[searsman05]

Well i am not genuis or really know anything about the infringement but looking at the pictures of the key in the link posted, it seems like the key has angles cut into it and the rotating pins that release the sidebar might just be a little to close to medeco's style since it uses rotating pins and angled keys in the same sort of manner. If i was medeco i would be a little upset at someone trying to copy my lock and just changing the setup minorly and then trying steal my profit, if ya know what i mean. By what is looks like they just got a little to close the medeco design and medeco said this aint gonna happen. But again i could be wrong about all that it is just my guess

Someone please correct me if i am wrong. This is kind of interesting i would love to really know what this whole deal it about ?


-James

[zeke79]

The emhart does not utilize a sidebar. It uses rotating pins that interlock with each other to combine 1 long pin. When rotated to the correct angle the bottom pin will disengage from the top pin creating a shear line. The plug of the emhart is ribbed to allow this design to work. Outside of the rotating pins there are no other significant similarities.

[n2oah]

The angle Medeco uses on their keys is 15 degree angle, whereas Emharts have a 20 degree angle.
I would like to see the whole issue of the infringement, as I know very little about it, and it may not even exist! Maybe some hardcore google searching will uncover some info...

[searsman05]

i see so really besides the rotating pins like you said there is no other simalarities, if that is the case then i wonder what the infringement thing is all about, i will try to look it up when i find some time to waste on the net. By what the pdf shows it seems like somethin was goin on for them to just stop selling that lock. But like n2oah said it might just be a rumor. Maybe they still make them but only for existing systems like the pdf shows i dunno hopefully we can figure this out

I really wish they still did sell em i would love the take a shot at one of those, i would probably never be able to pick it but hey it would be fun just to check it out in person. I am gonna watch ebay now lol



-James

[searsman05]

i Actually found somethin on ebay. It says emhart and all, but i have never heard of this lock before so i dunno what it is supposed to look like. lol

what do u think, is it an emhart ? I am guessing it is.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mortise-Cylinders-Corbin-Emhart-Locks-Locksmith_W0QQitemZ7578238561QQcategoryZ53150QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[zeke79]

Yes, it is an emhart cylinder.

[Squelchtone]

The angle Medeco uses on their keys is 15 degree angle, whereas Emharts have a 20 degree angle.
I would like to see the whole issue of the infringement, as I know very little about it, and it may not even exist! Maybe some hardcore google searching will uncover some info...

Just a follow up to this old post with some info we found out along the way:

Turns out that both use 20 degrees, not 15 and 20.



This is confirmed by manufacturer documentation located here:
Medeco http://nynex.s5.com/TOOOL-US-Boston/PDFs/Medeco/MEDECO-Binder-1.pdf
Emhart: http://nynex.s5.com/cgi-bin/i/lp101/pics/Corbin_interlocking_pin.jpg

Squelchtone

[Evan]

Just a follow up to this old post with some info we found out along the way:

Turns out that both use 20 degrees, not 15 and 20.

Squelchtone

That would have to be a given, because the same HPC 1200 originating machine is able to produce both types of keys and the cutting head on the machine only rotates left and right of centerline to one detent in each direction not two... So the angle which is 20° must be the same on both types of keys...

~~ Evan

P.S. way to bring this one back from the grave yard...

[Evan]

No, it is a rumor that Emhart locks have been discontinued. A Corbin rep told me that they are still produced. There is also rumor of some ordeal with Medeco and Emhart, but I am not sure if this is true.

n2oah:

Emhart locks are discontinued if you are attempting to establish a NEW keying system... Your option for high security from Corbin-Russwin for new systems is the Pyramid...

Emhart cylinders are only made as replacement parts for existing registered keying systems with the Corbin Key Systems Administrator and their availability is thus highly limited...

~~ Evan

[Squelchtone]

Just a follow up to this old post with some info we found out along the way:

Turns out that both use 20 degrees, not 15 and 20.

Squelchtone

That would have to be a given, because the same HPC 1200 originating machine is able to produce both types of keys and the cutting head on the machine only rotates left and right of centerline to one detent in each direction not two... So the angle which is 20° must be the same on both types of keys...

~~ Evan

P.S. way to bring this one back from the grave yard...

It would be a given to you because you know this info just like I know this info, but I'm posting it here to limit the number of people posting to the contrary. Just trying to squash some urban legends, rumors, and misnomers.

Squelchtone

P.S. I heard a new super computer beat the top winner on Jeopardy, maybe you should get in line to try to beat it.