Which tools for Australia?

[stilte]

There are rekeyable ones around, they're quite expensive. Their cheapest locks have spools inside so it might be a little hard. I mentioned them because they're everywhere over here, just thought that it might be the same in australia.

[Placidity]

hello, newbie here...
can anyone make a direct verdict/suggestion for first time/newbie lock pick sets for use in Australia? I picked my first lock like an hour ago using paper clips (following instructions in a topic somewhere on this forum), and they kinda dont cut it for the bigger locks (too weak/bending etc).

So I've heard the Slim Line vs standard picks from the previous posts, apparently slim lines are weaker, but makes no difference to a mastered hand, but as you know that is far from me. I do worry abit, I bent the paper clip picks abit when I was picking, and really wud not want that happening to pick set i paid money for. But if Slim lines are the only types that fit Australian keyways (please correct me if I'm wrong), then I guess theres really no deciding is there?

What I really want to know if there are any GOOD alternatives to the slim line model, that will work in AUS.

Also, I was browsing some online stores for picks and came across this Southord Jack Knife model (its also a keychain where a few picks can be flipped out). Are these any good (they definately look cool and convenient ) and will they work on most Australian locks>?

And please feel free to make suggestions to what type of picks I should get.
Keep in mind that:
A. Newbie, will probably bend them (not sure really, but prefer not to risk it)

B. Picks that work on Locks in AUS.

Thanks guys.

-----------------------------------------

I know answering so many different questions may be hard, so I keep this other question seperate.
I'm also interested in bump keys, but if I order them from the US, will they work on AUS locks?

[lunchb0x]

Placidity, hi and welcome to the site, with your picks i have both a standard and slimline set, personally i prefer the slimline but for the locks you will be picking you wont need them, so you should go for the standard picks, these will also be alitle stronger but when picking you shouldnt be bending your picks anyway

as for the jackknife i also have one of these, but it is not a very good set to be practicing with, i am a locksmith and i find the jackknife uselesss most of the time but it does come in handy for some locks

[Marco]

I find that most locks are fine for using a standard sized set. Occasionally you will come across some locks that will benefit from using slimlines but its not exactly a common thing.

[greyman]

While you guys are on the topic of all things Aussie ... what are people's opinions on the skill level required to pick/shim Lockwood padlocks? Is it possible for a beginner? Are they considered high security and/or do they have pins such as mushrooms etc.

Cheers

The standard brass 45mm lockwood 5-pin padlocks are usually relatively easy to pick (depends on the pinning of course). The smaller ones often use mushroom drivers and can be harder. Not sure if Lockwood is easy to shim - the bolt spring is very strong and pretty deep down the shackle hole. The standard padlocks are not high security.

[mercurial]

While you guys are on the topic of all things Aussie ... what are people's opinions on the skill level required to pick/shim Lockwood padlocks? Is it possible for a beginner? Are they considered high security and/or do they have pins such as mushrooms etc.

Cheers

The standard brass 45mm lockwood 5-pin padlocks are usually relatively easy to pick (depends on the pinning of course). The smaller ones often use mushroom drivers and can be harder. Not sure if Lockwood is easy to shim - the bolt spring is very strong and pretty deep down the shackle hole. The standard padlocks are not high security.

As stated above, many lockwood padlocks have no security pins, but some of them do (especially the smaller ones), and they also have reasonable tolerances. For a beginner, they can be quite a challenge to pick. Of all the small padlocks I have tried to pick (Abus Diskus included), some of the Lockwoods have been the most difficult, in spite of a relatively open keyway. Each lock's pinning may have been a factor here.

As far as shimming goes, I have not ever tried to shim any padlock, but looking at the mechanisms lockwood use, some of them should be able to be shimmed, assuming the gap between the shackle and the hole it goes into is wide enough to allow a shim to enter.

I'd speculate that even the lockwood locks without ball bearing locking dogs would still be very hard to shim, as there'd be very little place to work the shim into (if anybody has shimmed one, I stand corrected.)

Some of the better lockwood padlocks simply cannot be shimmed. If anybody can shim a Lockwood 310/72 - a real brute of a padlock - I'd be very impressed (it is impossible).

They are a VERY robust, very heavy padock. I have been meaning to post a set of pics of it and its disassembly, but am waiting on return of my digital camera from the repair shop. It is very simple inside, with very few parts, to ensure reliability.

Back on topic, with respect to standard vs slimline picks in Australia - I'd strongly reccommend slimlines. If you can only afford only either standard or slimline, go for the slimlines. If you can get a combination of both, that won't hurt, as you can certainly use the standard size picks on most keyways you will encounter.

I encountered a keyway yesterday that even my slimlines can hardly navigate - this is where home-made custom designed picks come into their own. Having the ability to make picks means that you can make a pick to suit a specific keyway, when required.

People do say the slimlines are 'weaker' but if you keep in mind that you should NEVER be applying enough force to damage a pick, you will do fine with slimlines exclusively. That is my opinion, I am sure that other people will have their own preferences.

Most Australian locks will be fine using the standard size, but the slimlines are so much more versatile.

Common Australian keyways (eg the Lockwood C4), most other rim/mortice cylinders & padlocks you will encounter as practice locks have very open keyways, so a standard size set will do the job. Slimines will allow for more freedom of movement, and for me make things easier, even in a big open keyway, of course that is partly just a matter of what I prefer & am accustomed to.

Lunchb0x is absolutely right regarding Jackknife sets - they are more a gimmick than a serious tool. Once a person becomes proficient picking locks using 'real' picks(and lunchb0x is), then they will be able to use a jackknife in a pinch, but the jackknife provides little feedback, and certainly isn't a good choice to start learning with. To learn you need all the help you can to be able to *feel* what is happening inside the lock - and for this a jackknife doesn't cut it.

Save your money, and maybe get a jackknife later, if you still want one, when you can use your conventional picks effectively.

jordyh : the small Abus padlocks I see on the shelf in the stores here in Australia aren't rekeyable, as you mentioned. However, all the Abus padlocks (except one Diskus) I have are rekeyable (screw under the shackle releases the cylinder). The Abus 83/45 is one of the re-keyable models I'm referring to, and in my opinion they make great practice lock.

With the 83/45 Abus you can remove and pick the cylinder alone, and then you can put it back in the padlock and learn to deal with the spring-bias from the locking mechanism - both of which will teach you about tension control.

Hope that helps,

...Mark

[mercurial]

While you guys are on the topic of all things Aussie ... what are people's opinions on the skill level required to pick/shim Lockwood padlocks? Is it possible for a beginner? Are they considered high security and/or do they have pins such as mushrooms etc.

Cheers

The standard brass 45mm lockwood 5-pin padlocks are usually relatively easy to pick (depends on the pinning of course). The smaller ones often use mushroom drivers and can be harder. Not sure if Lockwood is easy to shim - the bolt spring is very strong and pretty deep down the shackle hole. The standard padlocks are not high security.

As stated above, many lockwood padlocks have no security pins, but some of them do (especially the smaller ones), and they also have reasonable tolerances. For a beginner, they can be quite a challenge to pick. Of all the small padlocks I have tried to pick (Abus Diskus included), some of the Lockwoods have been the most difficult, in spite of a relatively open keyway. Each lock's pinning may have been a factor here.

As far as shimming goes, I have not ever tried to shim any padlock, but looking at the mechanisms lockwood use, some of them should be able to be shimmed, assuming the gap between the shackle and the hole it goes into is wide enough to allow a shim to enter.

I'd speculate that even the lockwood locks without ball bearing locking dogs would still be very hard to shim, as there'd be very little place to work the shim into (if anybody has shimmed one, I stand corrected.)

Some of the better lockwood padlocks simply cannot be shimmed. If anybody can shim a Lockwood 310/72 - a real brute of a padlock - I'd be very impressed (it is impossible).

They are a VERY robust, very heavy padock. I have been meaning to post a set of pics of it and its disassembly, but am waiting on return of my digital camera from the repair shop. It is very simple inside, with very few parts, to ensure reliability.

Back on topic, with respect to standard vs slimline picks in Australia - I'd strongly reccommend slimlines. If you can only afford only either standard or slimline, go for the slimlines. If you can get a combination of both, that won't hurt, as you can certainly use the standard size picks on most keyways you will encounter.

I encountered a keyway yesterday that even my slimlines can hardly navigate - this is where home-made custom designed picks come into their own. Having the ability to make picks means that you can make a pick to suit a specific keyway, when required.

People do say the slimlines are 'weaker' but if you keep in mind that you should NEVER be applying enough force to damage a pick, you will do fine with slimlines exclusively. That is my opinion, I am sure that other people will have their own preferences.

Most Australian locks will be fine using the standard size, but the slimlines are so much more versatile.

Common Australian keyways (eg the Lockwood C4), most other rim/mortice cylinders & padlocks you will encounter as practice locks have very open keyways, so a standard size set will do the job. Slimines will allow for more freedom of movement, and for me make things easier, even in a big open keyway, of course that is partly just a matter of what I prefer & am accustomed to.

Lunchb0x is absolutely right regarding Jackknife sets - they are more a gimmick than a serious tool. Once a person becomes proficient picking locks using 'real' picks(and lunchb0x is), then they will be able to use a jackknife in a pinch, but the jackknife provides little feedback, and certainly isn't a good choice to start learning with. To learn you need all the help you can to be able to *feel* what is happening inside the lock - and for this a jackknife doesn't cut it.

Save your money, and maybe get a jackknife later, if you still want one, when you can use your conventional picks effectively.

jordyh : the small Abus padlocks I see on the shelf in the stores here in Australia aren't rekeyable, as you mentioned. However, all the Abus padlocks (except one Diskus) I have are rekeyable (screw under the shackle releases the cylinder). The Abus 83/45 is one of the re-keyable models I'm referring to, and in my opinion they make great practice lock.

With the 83/45 Abus you can remove and pick the cylinder alone, and then you can put it back in the padlock and learn to deal with the spring-bias from the locking mechanism - both of which will teach you about tension control.

Hope that helps,

...Mark

[mercurial]

While you guys are on the topic of all things Aussie ... what are people's opinions on the skill level required to pick/shim Lockwood padlocks? Is it possible for a beginner? Are they considered high security and/or do they have pins such as mushrooms etc.

Cheers

The standard brass 45mm lockwood 5-pin padlocks are usually relatively easy to pick (depends on the pinning of course). The smaller ones often use mushroom drivers and can be harder. Not sure if Lockwood is easy to shim - the bolt spring is very strong and pretty deep down the shackle hole. The standard padlocks are not high security.

As stated above, many lockwood padlocks have no security pins, but some of them do (especially the smaller ones), and they also have reasonable tolerances. For a beginner, they can be quite a challenge to pick. Of all the small padlocks I have tried to pick (Abus Diskus included), some of the Lockwoods have been the most difficult, in spite of a relatively open keyway. Each lock's pinning may have been a factor here.

As far as shimming goes, I have not ever tried to shim any padlock, but looking at the mechanisms lockwood use, some of them should be able to be shimmed, assuming the gap between the shackle and the hole it goes into is wide enough to allow a shim to enter.

I'd speculate that even the lockwood locks without ball bearing locking dogs would still be very hard to shim, as there'd be very little place to work the shim into (if anybody has shimmed one, I stand corrected.)

Some of the better lockwood padlocks simply cannot be shimmed. If anybody can shim a Lockwood 310/72 - a real brute of a padlock - I'd be very impressed (it is impossible).

They are a VERY robust, very heavy padock. I have been meaning to post a set of pics of it and its disassembly, but am waiting on return of my digital camera from the repair shop. It is very simple inside, with very few parts, to ensure reliability.

Back on topic, with respect to standard vs slimline picks in Australia - I'd strongly reccommend slimlines. If you can only afford only either standard or slimline, go for the slimlines. If you can get a combination of both, that won't hurt, as you can certainly use the standard size picks on most keyways you will encounter.

I encountered a keyway yesterday that even my slimlines can hardly navigate - this is where home-made custom designed picks come into their own. Having the ability to make picks means that you can make a pick to suit a specific keyway, when required.

People do say the slimlines are 'weaker' but if you keep in mind that you should NEVER be applying enough force to damage a pick, you will do fine with slimlines exclusively. That is my opinion, I am sure that other people will have their own preferences.

Most Australian locks will be fine using the standard size, but the slimlines are so much more versatile.

Common Australian keyways (eg the Lockwood C4), most other rim/mortice cylinders & padlocks you will encounter as practice locks have very open keyways, so a standard size set will do the job. Slimines will allow for more freedom of movement, and for me make things easier, even in a big open keyway, of course that is partly just a matter of what I prefer & am accustomed to.

Lunchb0x is absolutely right regarding Jackknife sets - they are more a gimmick than a serious tool. Once a person becomes proficient picking locks using 'real' picks(and lunchb0x is), then they will be able to use a jackknife in a pinch, but the jackknife provides little feedback, and certainly isn't a good choice to start learning with. To learn you need all the help you can to be able to *feel* what is happening inside the lock - and for this a jackknife doesn't cut it.

Save your money, and maybe get a jackknife later, if you still want one, when you can use your conventional picks effectively.

jordyh : the small Abus padlocks I see on the shelf in the stores here in Australia aren't rekeyable, as you mentioned. However, all the Abus padlocks (except one Diskus) I have are rekeyable (screw under the shackle releases the cylinder). The Abus 83/45 is one of the re-keyable models I'm referring to, and in my opinion they make great practice lock.

With the 83/45 Abus you can remove and pick the cylinder alone, and then you can put it back in the padlock and learn to deal with the spring-bias from the locking mechanism - both of which will teach you about tension control.

Hope that helps,

...Mark

[Gozzo]

I just bought the standard mpxs-14 set from south ord and they work fine in australian lock's as for the slim lines i bought a single w rake from southords slimline range and its got more bends than a Tasmanian highway.