Books regarding lock picking?

[raimundo]

MBI the purported reason that a book is considered more likely to be accurate is because the person who wrote it also puts down what his expertise is, if he is a professor at some university, often a forword will be written by a known expert. and of course, there is expense and time in publishing a book so some controls such as peer review are used to make sure that is not some crackpot whos book is not going to sell

paper books are sold in a marketplace that will reject bushit. The internet is not vetted by any editor, its just a pile of crackpots.

[MortimerDuke]

It seems to me that an active forum such as Lockpicking 101 combines the peer review aspect of a book with the timeliness of Internet communication. I don't think there's anything in Ollam's book that can't be found on this forum (as well as oddball bits of info, such as that for a time a Google search for "Mazola Oil Party" returned this site as the first result viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5171, second page). The benefit of the book is its organization and ease of finding the information. Anything that is posted to this forum is immediately subject to scrutiny, unlike a great deal of information out in the Internet wilderness. The quality of information online varies wildly, just like it does in printed materials. I do agree with Rai that, overall, there is a higher bar to printed publication that implies higher quality information. But that's just one criteria for judgement.

Mainly, though, I just wanted to say "Mazola Oil Party".

[MBI]

MBI the purported reason that a book is considered more likely to be accurate is because the person who wrote it also puts down what his expertise is, if he is a professor at some university, often a forword will be written by a known expert. and of course, there is expense and time in publishing a book so some controls such as peer review are used to make sure that is not some crackpot whos book is not going to sell

paper books are sold in a marketplace that will reject bushit. The internet is not vetted by any editor, its just a pile of crackpots.

Yes, you'll usually find a higher percentage of accurate information in a book than online. I don't dispute that. But because of that, people ASSUME that if it's in a book, it's ALL true.

While a lot of what is published in print is subject to editing and even occasionally peer review, a surprising amount of it is not. It goes back to that assumption that if it's in a book people assume it's been thoroughly edited and the facts checked for accuracy. However, that takes time and money, and the fact is, a lot of the time if the publisher feels the author is credible, they simply publish it as-is. Occasionally they won't even run it through spell-check, having assumed that the author has done it himself. In my opinion it's disgraceful to operate that way, but it's cheaper, and profit is a big motivation.

Other times, it's not simply a profit/greed motivation to get something published quickly, other times it's a matter of trying to beat someone to the punch and get something published before someone else does, or while a topic is hot. It can lead to cutting corners.

Sometimes the whole purpose of having something published is for recognition and credit in making a discovery, and as a byproduct make it available for fact-checking and peer review, such as in medical and scientific journals. Which means of course, that it has NOT been checked for accuracy. As an example, one notorious case was a British researcher who published a study showing a high correllation between infant immunizations and autism. This was the impetus that started a grass-roots movement to stop automatically immunizing infants. Because according to the study, the correlation was high enough that is was presumed that the immunizations (or a component of them such as a mercuric compound) was the outright CAUSE of the increase in the rise of the numbers of diagnosed cases of autism. Untold numbers of children have died of preventable diseases, and in the process spread it to other children, as a result of that published article. Which everyone assumed was true. The researcher was reputable, and so the public at large and even many within the medical establishment assumed his research was correct. Well in recent years, the other shoe has dropped. He has now admitted that he completely falsified his research. Made it all up. He hadn't published in a while and was desperate for recognition to maintain his standing within the academic community, so he published a falsified study to keep his name out there. Last I heard, they're considering criminal charges against him due to all the infant deaths they feel resulted indirectly from his false information. Even now, years after the author admitted it was false, there is still an active movement protesting childhood immunizations, referring to his original work as justification.

There aren't as many crackpots with their names on books as there are with their names on internet blogs, but there are still plenty of them out there.

Which brings us back to lockpicking. There are some excellent texts out there on the subject, but I still believe that overall there is a greater amount of information, and often more current information, available on the internet than there are in books on this particular subject.

[raimundo]

well your right about more better information on the internet, and for our subject, its right here.

about books, if the ink sticks to the paper, it must be true.

autism link to innoculatons, like when the _ crows it makes the sun come up, cause and effect.

post hoc ergo propter hoc

[raimundo]

Ok then rooster not c**K

[MBI]

Darn word filters. lol

[ARF-GEF]

Hey guys,

I'm sorry to turn the thread around but I have a question more concerning the thread's original topic:
Does anyone know a new and up-to-date book?
(Considering that my primary interest is in the actual lock and it's mechanism rather than picking them.)

It occurred to me recently: although I have read several hundreds of pages of books on locks (especially recently), most of it is very much outdated.
I've found it's very hard to find a (good) book concerning "contemporary" locks.
Sometimes it's not a problem because some basics are the same, but especially when it comes to weaknesses and new advancements 10 years can be a lot of time.

So any suggestions?

[Squelchtone]

Hey guys,

I'm sorry to turn the thread around but I have a question more concerning the thread's original topic:
Does anyone know a new and up-to-date book?
(Considering that my primary interest is in the actual lock and it's mechanism rather than picking them.)

It occurred to me recently: although I have read several hundreds of pages of books on locks (especially recently), most of it is very much outdated.
I've found it's very hard to find a (good) book concerning "contemporary" locks.
Sometimes it's not a problem because some basics are the same, but especially when it comes to weaknesses and new advancements 10 years can be a lot of time.

So any suggestions?

The second post in this thread answers your question as far as recent picking books are concerned. (Deviant Ollam's book)

The ONLY good recent book on mechanisms is Graham Pulford's High Security Mechanical Locks and Encyclopedic Reference (he is a member here: greyman)

If you want a general locksmithing book with some diagrams of locks, Bill Phillips 6th Edition of The Complete Book of Locks and Locksmithing may be handy but I find it dated and recycled material from his last 5 books going back to the 70's and 80's. Black and white photos of old Kwikset unit locks just don't do it for me.

The Han Fey papers available on toool.nl are also a great resource and highlight some high security locks by showing cutaway models as well as easy to understand diagrams.

This forum is also a good resource, albeit not as easy to thumb through as a book.

Hope this helps,

Squelchtone

[Squelchtone]

You don't need knowledge, you need practice. Well, you do need knowledge, but not the type you're thinking of. Look into books which break down locks so that you know the internals, and then you'll know how to pick them. Greyman's book is a great example of this (speaking of which, aren't we ready for a 2nd edition by now?).

-steve

+1000

No offense to anyone in the thread, but for pete's sake people, practice, take locks apart, learn by doing, then pracice some more. Reading a book on how to fix a car engine or how to pick a lock is not the same as getting under the car and turning a wrench or picking a lock over and over to gain a better feel for it. I like books, but I can't agree more with Legion that people don't need knowledge, they need practice. Can't join the NFL and play football because you read a book on the game. A book is not the end all be all to learning something.

Squelchtone

[GWiens2001]

I agree with Legion and Squelch. I like books for the mechanical breakdown of the locks, as well as tips in picking them. But most of my time with lock subject matter is spent either picking locks or impressioning them.

I can also read books in public, but prefer not to pick in public, if you catch my drift. I read voraciously, and remember a lot of it. Then, when I run into a lock I have not handled before, I may already be familiar with the operating mechanisms, allowing me to have an easier (not necessarily easy) time picking it.

Gordon

[Evan]

Hey guys,

I'm sorry to turn the thread around but I have a question more concerning the thread's original topic:
Does anyone know a new and up-to-date book?
(Considering that my primary interest is in the actual lock and it's mechanism rather than picking them.)

So any suggestions?

As far as books, Squelchtone has basically run the list of the useful stuff, Bill Phillip's editions (or the ones from the 70's and early 80's it copies most of its material from) are good references for locks which where once common but no longer produced...

You should also seek out the OEM service manuals as they usually contain exploded views of the cylinders as well as everything you would need to know about assembling them and how to create keying systems for them...

I mean since your interest is in how the locks are put together what better source of information than the OEM...

One thing that surprised me slightly about Squelch's response here is he totally blanked on the US Patent documents which contain diagrams and detailed written descriptions of locking mechanisms -- especially since he is usually Johnny on the Spot with links to patents when people ask what a specific mechanism looks like and there are no good pictures already referenced on the site anywhere...

~~ Evan

[Squelchtone]

One thing that surprised me slightly about Squelch's response here is he totally blanked on the US Patent documents which contain diagrams and detailed written descriptions of locking mechanisms -- especially since he is usually Johnny on the Spot with links to patents when people ask what a specific mechanism looks like and there are no good pictures already referenced on the site anywhere...

~~ Evan

I didn't include google patents as they are not in a recently published book, and these fellas seem to like toting around their dead trees. I'm also good at finding obscure stuff, as is Macgyver101 and other folks, but not everyone has the knack or google-fu to find things as easily as they would in the Index of a book.

I did include the forum since we're all already here =)

Squelchtone

[Legion303]

If it weren't for patent information, I likely would never have explored CyberLock so...thoroughly.

-steve

[Squelchtone]

If it weren't for patent information, I likely would never have explored CyberLock so...thoroughly.

-steve

you could say you ripped Cyberlock a new I/O port.



<cricket chirping sounds>
Squelchtone

[ARF-GEF]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the advice! I did not consider Devinat Ollam's book because I've already read that. I enjoyed it very much.
And I have finished reading the Graham Pulford book as well. That was actually one of the main reasons for the post. Absolutely loved it. A few more explanatory pics could have made it even better, but nothing to complain about. A fantastic book. So I was actually looking for something new but very much like that.
Bill Phillips 6th Edition of The Complete Book of Locks and Locksmithing is being read now.
About Han Fey's articles: They are superb. IMO on par with the Graham Pulford book. I see something like those articles would have been too long for the Graham Pulford book, but I think they have loads fantastic, easy to understand pics. They are so detailed, at he beginning I found almost irreplaceable for understanding basic mechanics. He could make a very nice book by simply putting them all together. Like "A selection of lock and their workings" kind of thing. Maybe it not really marketable though.

Practice and taking them apart is really invaluable in understanding lock. But it's not that easy to get all those locks and take them apart. I also lack the financial means to buy that many locks. (I know, ebay, but I'm not yet earning any money and man, just the shipping costs to central europe from the US can get steep.) So it's easier and faster to read about them. Granted, it's not the same as an autopsy:).


Concerning OEM manuals: That sounds great! Thank you very much! The question is: how can I get them? Simply google-ing "OEM manual abloy protec" for example doesn't really seem to do the trick.

Google patents is useful too. It was the Greyham pulford book again which actually lead me to them so they are already have been put to good use.