Question on Plug Followers

[YouLuckyFox]

Thank you, cledry. I found your reply to be helpful in that it will help me to follow the correct practice each time I use a plug follower, also to avoid common mistakes that I was not aware of. If a masterpin won't fall out, is the best option to reload the bible after unloading and recording each chamber pinning (assuming I'm decoding the lock to make a key)? As I mentioned at the beginning of this topic, I was working on a lock that I did not know had master pins and had them slide out on me to the point that I did not know which chambers they were originally in . Also, if I am using uncommon terminology, I will not be offended to have it corrected. Thanks again!

[ARF-GEF]

Firstly when he used the regular follower he didn't turn the plug before pushing it out with the follower. In this case he was OK doing this, but many 6 pin cylinders are keyed to 5 pin, the 6th chamber being empty.
Third, he states that it will remove all the master pins. It won't. Most of the time it will, but locks that use a long master pin, .120 or above will usually stay in the top chamber. Also occasionally it will drop top pins; many top pins are too short.

I was thinking about the exact same things, but I wasn't too sure if I was right or not
Thanks for the post cledry

[cledry]

Thank you, cledry. I found your reply to be helpful in that it will help me to follow the correct practice each time I use a plug follower, also to avoid common mistakes that I was not aware of. If a masterpin won't fall out, is the best option to reload the bible after unloading and recording each chamber pinning (assuming I'm decoding the lock to make a key)? As I mentioned at the beginning of this topic, I was working on a lock that I did not know had master pins and had them slide out on me to the point that I did not know which chambers they were originally in . Also, if I am using uncommon terminology, I will not be offended to have it corrected. Thanks again!

Usually after rekeying one or two cylinders you will know if you are dumping all the master pins. Often your key will not enter the cylinder because the stack height is too great. A trick to correct this many times is to cut a key to your deepest cuts and remove the peaks between cuts, this will often enter the cylinder and allow you to locate the remaining master pin. This also happens without master pins if your cylinder is using long driver pins.

Example: MK is 368521 CK is 522745 so you would make a key cut to 568745 and hopefully it will enter the lock and turn. If you have to tap it in to work then you should replace the springs as well, keep an eye on the cap and it will tell you where the offending pin is.

All this is assuming you don't have a cap that just pops of like a Kwikset, in which case just remove the cap.

[ARF-GEF]

Thanks for the info Cledry, you are a really good source for pro tips
There is one thin I don't get: (Why) won't all the driver pins fall out with the master pins if it's milled down to the deepest cut?
With the key pins already removed many driver pins are not at all that long, are they?

[cledry]

Thanks for the info Cledry, you are a really good source for pro tips
There is one thin I don't get: (Why) won't all the driver pins fall out with the master pins if it's milled down to the deepest cut?
With the key pins already removed many driver pins are not at all that long, are they?

Sometimes they do fall out as well. What you want to do is look down the cutout area as you turn the plug back and forth. You can see if you have lost a driver pin. Usually they are long enough that they don't fall out though.

[Evan]

Thanks for the info Cledry, you are a really good source for pro tips
There is one thin I don't get: (Why) won't all the driver pins fall out with the master pins if it's milled down to the deepest cut?
With the key pins already removed many driver pins are not at all that long, are they?

Because the driver pins are out of bounds...

They don't interact with the key other than to drive the master and bottom pins down under the springs...

Cutting a key like cledry mentioned will allow you to remove all the pins into the plug so you can just rekey the lock without stripping down the cylinder...

You would have to cut a unique key for each cylinder you wish to rekey in that way, you can not cut a key to 999999 (or whatever the deepest cuts may be) and have it work to take the lock apart that way...

Some types of locks require a "set-up key" like the 999999, especially Schlage Primus unless you have a cylinder stand or like holding the sidebar in with your fingers while you re-pin it without making any mistakes else the sidebar, finger pins and all the tiny springs for them will fly all over the place...

~~ Evan

[YouLuckyFox]

@cledry and Evan:
Thank you both for the explanations, they were most helpful. I was able to understand what the purpose of cutting a deep key would be and how it differed from the 99999 keys. This has been most helpful. Although I have no other questions (think I better get a Keedex and give it a shot before I'll have more,) I feel I would be remiss not to thank you for helping to answer some technical questions in this thread.