Antique Iron Strong Box from 1800s

by **kodierer** » 10 Mar 2005 18:15

Before attempting the warded picks get some rust remover from the supermarket. Lime remover if it doesn't say rust will help tremendously.

by **mcm757207** » 10 Mar 2005 18:45

The warded picks avilable from sources such as southord aren't even going to fit into that lock. Who suggested buying those?

by **quickpicks** » 10 Mar 2005 19:33

Don't forget to show us some pics of what's inside.

by **quickpicks** » 10 Mar 2005 19:52

BTW, how long is this thing. It could be a coffin.

by **kodierer** » 10 Mar 2005 20:05

MCM, I did, I couldn't tell how big the key way is by the picture. Anyway if they don't work, he can start a new hobby

by **davhamilton** » 10 Mar 2005 21:28

Sorry, I should have mentioned the dimensions before. This is why I know
something has to be in this strong box, but it could only be a coffin if it is for
a midget!

It measures 27.5 inches long, 16 inches deep and 17 inches wide, but weighs
255 pounds! When I had to help lift it off the truck, I could not believe it was
so heavy for something so small. I know it is iron, but you can tell it has the
first layer, then there is a hollow space, then the inner box. I was tapping all
around the box and it sounds hollow most of the way around it. The freight
driver kept asking what was in the box, so I had to explain I have no idea.

I have the box upside down now, and thoroughly soaked all of the lock pieces
that I could with the wd40. Now I'll just 'patiently' wait a couple of days to let
the wd40 work its magic.

Dave

by **davhamilton** » 10 Mar 2005 21:33

Sorry, forgot about the keyhole. It is 1 1/4 inches high (1.25) and is about
5/8 inch wide at the widest point, and 1/2 inch wide at the bottom of the
keyhole.

Not sure what this new hobby would be, spend a lot of money on impossible
to open chests and then drive myself crazy trying to open them? My wife
found the auction by accident, and then my curious self just had to have it. I
don't know if I would buy another one (if I could afford it).

by **mcm757207** » 10 Mar 2005 21:48

I would highly suggest that you get a locksmith to come out and open it for you. It probobly won't take them long, and if you were to come to have one of the lockies from my shop come down it would be about $40-50 (US) to make a key. Then you have a key that can work it forever, and if you want you can just request that they make a key, but not look at the contents. they would obviosly have to lift the lid a little just to make sure it's no still locked, but beyond that they would not have to look inside.

by **MrB** » 10 Mar 2005 21:49

OK, a quick weight calc from your measurements:

Code: Select all: Total area of sides: 27.5 x 16 x 2 = 880 27.5 x 17 x 2 = 935 16 x 17 x 2 = 544 ----- 2,359 sq in Assume thickness of steel walls is 0.4 inches Volume of walls: 2,359 x 0.4 = 944 cu in Density of steel is about 0.283 lb/cu in Estimated weight of box: 944 x 0.283 = 267 lb

So, depending on the thickness of the walls, the box does not necessarily have to contain anything for it to weigh what it does.

by **toomush2drink** » 10 Mar 2005 22:06

Ok your now getting somewher if you can see 3 levers. Take a look at the picture i posted and now imagine another lever on top of the one thats there already and that is most likely what you have. Its a 2 lever lock and the other is the talon. If you lokk at the lever in the picture you will notice a slot in the middle, this where the "stump" pass through and is called the "gate". to allow the stump to enter the gate you need to tension the talon and also lift the levers but the levers are mos tlikely different heights ,hence different height cuts on a key. If the tension doesnt work on the last lever/talon try tensioning the middle one as this is sometimes another option with certain locks.

Boy i bet you usa buddies are glad you dont see these things all the time. Over here lever locks are everywhere but much more high security than this :twisted:

by **HeadHunterCEO** » 10 Mar 2005 22:14

toomush2drink wrote:Ok your now getting somewher if you can see 3 levers. Take a look at the picture i posted and now imagine another lever on top of the one thats there already and that is most likely what you have. Its a 2 lever lock and the other is the talon. If you lokk at the lever in the picture you will notice a slot in the middle, this where the "stump" pass through and is called the "gate". to allow the stump to enter the gate you need to tension the talon and also lift the levers but the levers are mos tlikely different heights ,hence different height cuts on a key. If the tension doesnt work on the last lever/talon try tensioning the middle one as this is sometimes another option with certain locks.

Boy i bet you usa buddies are glad you dont see these things all the time. Over here lever locks are everywhere but much more high security than this

i have touched a lever lock only about 4 times in my life

by **davhamilton** » 10 Mar 2005 23:07

mcm, Thank you for the suggestion, but I figure I've come this far, so I
will try to get it on my own after letting the wd40 soak in. Seeing the lock
upside down let me see some more details I couldn't see before when it
was right-side up. If the levers still won't loosen up after this, I'll give up
and call a locksmith. That's pretty impressive if your guys will drive down
to Nashville to make me a key for only $40-50. Just
kidding. Currently though I have the key post knocked off, so it would
have to be repaired.

MrB, Thanks for the calculations. I don't really know any thicknesses so
we'll just have to see. When turning the strong box over I could hear
something moving, other than the clangs of the 3 metal handles.

toomush, Thanks for your advice and the picture, I have been studying the
lock more while it is upside down, and there are 3 levers but then behind
the three levers there is a thicker piece of metal which I assume is the
talon. However, instead of a v shape sticking down, it is the opposite way.
I can see where a key would insert into it to make it move finally.

I'll let you all know what happens with the lock.
Thanks,
Dave

by **capt.dunc** » 11 Mar 2005 9:12

i can't believe that you've rushed in without careful probing around or turning the box to get better views into the keyway and finding out what type of lock it was. ie. warded or lever. perhaps you should put that at number 1 in your what to do with old locked boxes checklist. refixing the keypost when it's open isn't going to be difficult and at least you'll have the space you need to work. the key post isn't a part of the mechanism, it's just to stop solid shanked keys fitting. since you can't feel anything in the gap around the key way it's safe to assume that it's a gap between the box and lock. you said that "one of the levers is up as far as it will go", as toomush said, each lever raises a different amount, if it's gone to high and is jammed or the spring has rusted and it won't move back down, then you won't be able to pick it. use your wd40, L shaped wires to lift and a soft faced hammer to coax stuck levers back down, get movement in them, and then pick it. and please take your time.

by **capt.dunc** » 11 Mar 2005 9:49

warded locks;http://www.what-means.com/encyclopedia/Warded_lock i hope i've just inserted this link right. also note that you can have wards which are just like the green plane, at any depth in the lock. there used to be a book in print on key collecting by eric monk, it had some pictures of very fine warded locks as well as a history of locks and keys. believe it or not many are still in use in parts of scotland, particularly on roof access doors on old tenaments (which are 3-7 floors of flats on one stairwell) and i had a newly made key with a 1 1/2 by 1 1/2 inch bit in my hand the other day, for a door on the refurbished great hall at stirling castle, since the lock was an original i can only assume that someone had to come and impression it, a nice job if you can get it.

by **raimundo** » 11 Mar 2005 10:03

now that the post is broken out, and you turned the box over and didn't hear general johnstons gold rattleing around in there, you might as well angle grind the bottom off the box, the lock is destroyed, and the gold went south when general grant showed up. The box was just to heavy so they used saddlebags. with the destruction, its no longer an antique. If I had to brute force such a thing after spending years researching it and the period locks and getting it exrayed like the antikathera mechanism, I would consider a careful attack on the hinge pins. On the theory that these could be replace with least visible damage, and I said hingepins, not the hinges.

Antique Iron Strong Box from 1800s

lock is broke

Who is online