Antique Iron Strong Box from 1800s

[aviator151]

i guess that makes me the weird one...

[Kayvon]

think of how boring all our lives are going to be after he gets this open.... we'll have nothing to look forward to...

That's true! We'll have to go back to answering these:

\/\/hatz up 3117 10ck h4ckerz! H0w do 1 pick a gumball m4ch1ne lock?? 1 w4nt candy!!!!!

And then the "search button" replies, etc.

[davhamilton]

The guy gave me even more info about the lock, and said that they aren't
rivets, they are just carriage bolts that I can easily replace, he had to
replace his while getting it restored anyway, so he recommended I just
take their heads off and drive them through to get the lock off. There are
actually 4 levers as you can see from the pictures below, but you also
have to turn a handle on the top which retracts bolts that keep the chest
securely locked. His locksmith in Ohio can repair the lock and make me a
key if I send it to him, and then I just need four new carriage bolts to
reattach it.

The box is the earliest style of Wells Fargo or Adams Express box, so it is
a pretty cool part of history.

He also said I should not use lubricant on the lock because it could
damage any papers that might still be intact inside. However, since it has
sat in water at various points, I'm sure any paper would have been
destroyed long ago anyway.

He has the exact same box as mine, and told me that his only weighs 110
pounds empty. So I have 145 pounds of something inside. Maybe it is old
railroad tools? Maybe something else, I am so curious. It was weighed by
the freight company, so I know mine weighs 255 pounds.

Maybe I'm crazy, maybe I'm impulsive, but regardless I'm having fun and
learning a lot. I have to wait another couple hours before I can try to get
the bolts off, my wife and the kids are asleep and I have to wait for them
to wake up. He also told me how he restored his to what it looks like in
the photos, so I am planning to do the same thing with mine. It will be a
wonderful treasure to have on its own, and will be much easier to deal with
at 110 pounds.

Pictures (his, obviously):
First, the key (an original):


Next, the gear that retracts the bolts on the inside of the lid, this is pretty
cool and what makes this chest extremely rare according to some experts
he has talked with. (The top is the unfinished version, the bottom is after
restoration):


Finally, here is the restored box that he has, the intact lock, and the lock
taken apart. The dice were pretty stacked against me on getting this
sucker open by picking it, but it sure was fun trying, and I appreciate
everyone's advice, especially toomush. I appreciate all of your
encouragement.


Sorry for such a long post, and if the pictures are too big, I don't know
how to adjust them with BBCode, so oh well. I think it is worth it to see
the detail.

I'll post a new thread when I get it open, as this one is getting pretty long.
And I will have pictures of whatever is inside. Maybe 145 pounds of
seaweed? That would be pretty funny.


Dave

[toomush2drink]

You should use that old lock to practice on and you will soon discover its not as hard as you think to open it.The levers dont have any anti pick notches so it should be a doddle to open.

[davhamilton]

I'll definitely give it a try once the lock is in good working condition.

Dave

[digital_blue]

I think you should post the results in this thread. These threads end up having a bit of history to them. Later on when somebody starts reading this thread they're not going to want to go looking for the other thread that has your results in it. That would be cruel and unusual punishment.

db

[HeadHunterCEO]

funny would be another strongbox inside

[Uisgdlyast]

well i just read the entire thread... now i'm interested in whats inside.


I have one word of advice though, after watching a lot of antique shows with my mom sometimes restoring soemthign old actually takes away from its value.

You might want to contact a few people if your worried about this, but if you don't care about the value then it doesnt really matter.

[NKT]

The joys of eBay, right?

I bought a weather balloon for $1 the other day. I inflated it at a party last night, which was quite smart. It was like The Prisoner - and someone even had the tune on their phone!

As regards the box, what was it under? "Mystery locked box"?

I want to know what's in it too!

[bigbike]

Dave:
Please post your results here, as I too am following this thread and would love to see it thru to conclusion. I am betting that you have 150# of rusting tools inside. I would be curious to learn if someone who lived in the house actually worked on the railroad(where the box was found) or merely abscounded with the box sometime in it's history, buried it under the porch till the heat subsided and then just forgot about it.

Just how my mind works.

[vector40]

Aaaaargh. It be pirate bones.

[master in training]

i think theres a lot of people waiting to see whats inside this thing! me being one of them.

nails would be the most likely one, but would you use a massive securely locked strongbox to secure a bunch of nails? the sheer weight of the nails would stop people stealing them!

i would guess it would be tools, since these would be more valuable than just nails. as to how it got in the old house is anyones guess!

[mcm757207]

If it was something like nails, he would probobly hear them moving when turning the box upside down and such.

[davhamilton]

The box is open!!!!!!!!!
It took both me and my father in law to get it open. This is basically what
happened:

Step 1:
I used a cold chisel to remove all four carriage bolts holding the lock in place.
I first put the edges up on the carriage bolts with a screwdriver, so that I
wouldn't actually damage the metal surface of the box. As each bolt head
was knocked off, I pushed the bolt through. The lock fell off immediately
after the fourth bolt fell in. So much for picking the lock. *sigh*
Step 2:
I had found out that I had to turn the top handle clockwise 270 degrees to
get it to open. I tried with the lock gone, it didn't turn. I used wd40, then
a crud-cutter gel to remove the rust from around the handle. Still no luck.
I then had my father in law bring over a big pipe wrench. We gingerly
turned it (it was really hard at first) and got it to the correct position.
Step 3:
Did it open? Of course not, that would be too easy! I had a 10 foot
section of pipe in my garage (it came with the house) so we used it as a
giant lever through the top handle. I could lift the box off the ground, then
my father in law on top of the box off the ground. I then started pushing
the pipe down really fast to try and break the rust that was binding it.
The middle and right side could come up, but not the left side.
Step 4:
Peering through the keyhole with a light shining through the top, It looked
like the bolt hadn't retracted all the way from the box edge. I had my father in law turn the top handle just a little bit more. Snap! Off goes the
handle bolt and the gear mechanism fell inside. Don't worry, I found this
is repairable afterwards. Now we had lost our leverage point and just had
a half inch diameter hole in the lid.
Step 5:
I called the guy who had the box, and he eventually called me back two
hours later. He recommended put the box on its front, hammer it like
crazy on top with a rubber mallet, then put it on its back and do the same
to make sure the bolt is free. We heard it move back and forth and it was
free as far as it could go. He then recommended leave it on its back and
work on it that way.
Step 6: (when will it end!!)
We got a big steel j-bolt slid it into the hole on top, bolted it to a 4x4 piece
of wood, braced it on one side with pieces of 2x4, and finally used a car
jack for leverage. We then would get it to open as much as we could,
then hammer it with the rubber mallet to break the rust off so it would
get free a little more. That left side was just extremely rusted. After
20 minutes of working, we finally got it open!!! It was very, very hard to
do thanks to all of the rust.

What was in it?
If you read this far, or skipped ahead, you are probably wondering what
the heck was in this box? It was full of Meeting Minutes for the Society of
Oddfellows for Pueblo Colorado, along with check stubs and a lot of their
finances. No gold, no tools, no seaweed (darn it, I was looking forward to seaweed!!!). The dates for everything were between 1968 and 1984. Most of the binders of paper were destroyed from water, and everything was still actually soaked somehow! I guess it could dry out easily inside that box. I'm saving a few for mementos, but the rest is too destroyed to
save, so I'll throw it away at some point. Now I just have to clean out
the box and restore it.

Also, it really did weigh 255 pounds, but the mysterious part is that mine is
still just as heavy without the papers inside. There weren't that many in it.
There is no false bottom I can see, and the guy confirmed his only weighs
110 pounds. So somehow two identical boxes with the same dimensions
have at least a 100 pound difference. Weird, eh? Maybe it is from rust?

The guy who will restore my lock and make me a key can also repair the gear mechanism pretty easily, they just bolt together. He is a world-reknowned antique lock collector and restorer, and has a lock collection worth over 3 million US dollars. After that, I just have to get four carriage bolts and strip off the rust, etc... It will take me a long time
to restore.

Why would I restore it if it could lose value? This box is so rusted that I
can't see much hurting its value currently. I think it will look a heck of a
lot better and I'll enjoy having it for years if I restore it. My kids will love
it too. I did this for the mystery and adventure, and got both! It was
an awesome experience and I don't regret a second of it. I'm also going
to learn to pick the lock once it is restored, but not with a screwdriver and hammer this time!

Also, I really enjoyed my time on this board, and appreciated hearing
from everyone. I'll post pictures tomorrow when I have more time.

Also, the guy who helped me pointed out two other auctions currently,
one for a box from 1780 (no mystery this time) and the lock takes up the
entire lid of the box. Will I buy it? Only time will tell.

Thanks for reading!
Dave

[mattc]

No gold But check their account details, it might still have money in it