Bypass techniquest for the Emergancy services???

[ben.bun]

I am a UK fire-fighter & believe that the use of NDE has its purpose in my job.

I agree with all that has been posted about the fastest route in when life is in imminent danger.

There are probably more occasions where life is not in danger & the options for NDE would have been far more professional.

Any fire-fighter worth his salt will tell you that salvage or damage limitation is basic firemanship & the hallmark of a good fire-fighter. Why make matters worse than they need to be.

Bump keys would be ideal for these lower level incidents & probably the most advantageous skill we could possess would be the knowledge of how to bypass digital push button combination locks, as they are being used in increasing numbers on office doors.

If we didn't think there was a place for this sort of skill, we wouldn't be here on a site like this trying to improve our knowledge & skills.

[JackNco]

if by digital u mean the mechanical push button jobbies u find about with the round silver handles that u see everywhere there is a thread about them on these forums. i think it got locked as bypass is advanced forums stuff but it gives u hints on how to open them. in fact it basically explainers how its done. im not sure if it classed as a bypass or a pick as there was some skill involved.

also find out the factory set code as a lot of companies wont bother changing it.

BTW where in the UK are u from?

John

[ben.bun]

Hi jackNo,

Yes I am on about the push button ones. They are advertised as digital.

There are number of different types, one with a single column of buttons (numbered) with either a knob, handle or thumbturn.

Those that have 10 numbered buttons & 3 letters plus a cancel button arranged in 2 columns.

I believe that there are also some where the buttons are arranged in a circle.

You are right about the factory set code & that most companies didn't use to reset them, but I think most of them have cottoned on now.

I am actually a FF in Staffs, so not that far from you.

[JackNco]

yep there the ones, nice to hear your comments on bumping as well. why not ask ur boss if you can use them? maybe train a few others in it?

John

[ben.bun]

I am seriously thinking about going down that route, but experience has shown me that unless you present a seriously strong case for the use of the skills talked about on here, with tangible benefits to the organisation, it will simply be poo pooed.

The bottom line is that there would be serious cost implications. 1 set of bump keys, training of personnel for each watch of each station in the use of NDE = money that they would rather not have to spend as it would be easy to discredit its purposefulness.

However, if I learn some of the skills & then demonstrate them on incidents where officers have attended & they then see what has been achieved. Whether that be damage limitation, quicker turnaround of appliances (fire engines) because we have not had to wait for a keyholder at an incident where a fire alarm has actuated, but there are no signs of fire, then they will probably latch onto the fact that it could actually save them money.

If that is achieved they may go for it.

[JackNco]

I hope they do. shims may also prove useful for you

[ben.bun]

I have looked at shims but to be fair, padlocks regardless of how expensive they are, generally never present us with any serious problems.

Bolt croppers, Hooligan tool or if necessary hydraulic cutting equipment will always compromise them. We don't have to worry about whether that type of padlock is shim proof.

I hasten to add that we don't destroy expensive locks if we can help it. If it is on a chain we will cut a link out the chain close to the padlock. That way when the owner does arrive they can generally secure their property as they had previously, just with a slightly shorter chain.

[JackNco]

oh ya i forgot u guys have the jaws of life and that mini version.

[ben.bun]

Which bump keys would be best for us (UK emergency services) & where would be best to get them?

I have seen a couple of sites that sell them, Devonlocks & UK Bump keys for instance. The glaring thing was that one company was selling 12 for about £150 pounds & the other was selling 10 for £35.

Now either one is selling something at a massively inflated price or far superior quality. But which is it & can anybody recommend a reputable seller.

Ben

[JackNco]

besty bet is to go in to the local lockie with some ID that ur a fire fighter or just turn up in a fire engine and get them to cut u some for a couple of quid each. the most common lock by far is the yale 5pin.

John

[ben.bun]

Cheers John,

I will have to seek out the nearest lockie to me & give that a whirl.

What are the most common locks apart from Yale 5 pin that bump keys would be good for?

Ben

[JackNco]

hmmmm, not entirely sure, era and union maybe. be nice to get some euro cylinder keys in there (the kind u find on patio doors) but theres so many out there, and apparently it varies with area. best bet is to be completely open with the lockie and ask him what his most common keys are in that area are. im sure if he knows ur not a thief and not out 2 steal business and that it might actually help people he will be very forthcoming and helpful.

[ben.bun]

Thanks John,

I will take your advice & have a word with the local lockie & see what they suggest.

Ben

[JackNco]

let us know how u get on

[Halligan]

Hey all I am new to this site and to lockpicking. anyway I am a career firefighter just outside New York city and thats the reason I wanted to get into lock picking and bumping. There are many ways (as previously mentioned on this thread) for us firefighters to force entry but I can say that there are countless times where we find ourselves outside of a building commercial or residential (usually in the middle of the night) where there is an alarm ringing but obviously no fire and we still need to check it out. When this happens we usually calll dispatch and they try and contact a keyholder, which translates into us standing around and waiting. Now I am pretty good at using shove knives and screwdrivers but that only gets you so far so bump keys would be a great solution. I got a set of eleven most common for my area but I have had trouble using them and am still practicing with them before i take them to the field and the department. i dont think i have the technique down yet
As far as some of the other tools mentioned here somebody talked about the K-TOOL.. Its a metal tool shaped like a K and it is slid over the cylinder (commercial cylinder mortise and rim locks) and tapped into place with the flat side of a axe. A Halligan bar is then placed in a slot on the K tool and pressure pushed upward pulling the cylinder out. Once the cylinder is out you need to use a grinded down flat head screw driver or a key tool (a small L shaped tool) to open the lock. Very effective. The other tool I carry wich does less damage is a pair of modified channel-lock type pliers. I simply grasp the cylinder from the side and rotate it, essentiallyunscrewing it. There may be to screw holding it in place but with a llittle force they will snap off. Once its been unscrewed youfollow the same procedure as you would with the K-TOOL. I also cut off some of the insulation from the bottom of these pliers and ground one side down to open the rim locks and use a torch and grinder to bend the other end down to shape a Key tool, so its all in one. These pliersarebecoming very common and have been around the fire service for some time. The great thing about the PLiers and the K-TOOL if used properly you can usually re insert the lock and turn the key and it should work somewhat, so that passerby's wont notice it. Anyway any suggestions on bumping techniques wouldbe greatly appreciated, I have seen the vids and some of the threads but still need help. Thnx in advance stay safe all!