Pin Tumbler Lock rotations

by **doyle** » 23 Oct 2005 13:45

How to rotate a pin tumbler lock more than 720 degrees without picking it twice?

by **stick** » 23 Oct 2005 13:53

Plug spinners. Or really fast hands.

by **digital_blue** » 23 Oct 2005 14:44

More than 720 degrees? Are you winding it up for something?

db

by **illusion** » 23 Oct 2005 14:47

perhaps for doors where the bolt locks twice, and you have to turn the key twice to fully unlock the door?

by **Shrub** » 23 Oct 2005 15:04

Some doors have a geared system that have to be turned quite a few times but without knowing where doyle is from its hard to tell exactally the backgroud to the question.

by **Chrispy** » 23 Oct 2005 23:35

I'd be assuming it's for an extending mortice lock. The ones where you extend the bolt about 15-20mms and then another rotation extends it about another 15-20mms (30-40mms total).

by **Shrub** » 24 Oct 2005 5:53

It might not be as you can come accross a euro cylinder that is a multipoint lock but instead of a cam it has a gear and you have to basically wind the locks in an out, a plug spinner doesnt always well actually hardly ever (in my experiance) have enough strength to move the plug past the shear line.

I guess until he/she comes back and tells us we will never know.

by **Dimmy Locks** » 24 Oct 2005 6:23

Shrub wrote:It might not be as you can come accross a euro cylinder that is a multipoint lock but instead of a cam it has a gear and you have to basically wind the locks in an out, a plug spinner doesnt always well actually hardly ever (in my experiance) have enough strength to move the plug past the shear line.

I came across one of those a while ago, it turns out it took 5 full rotations to wind in the 7 point latch mechanism. not realising this at 1st, and having picked and rotated twice I was becoming a little frustrated ( customers helful comment " I just keep turning until it opens"). My solution was to partly turn the cylinder, then "guesstimate" with my pick the pin depths, rough cut a blank, rotated the lock back again and impressioned. ( my 1st on site impressioning that wasnt a wafer lock <smugmode enabled>). another alternative might be an attempt at bumping, although bumping the same lock 5 times may be a struggle, and hardly looks professional?

by **Chrispy** » 24 Oct 2005 6:30

Professional is getting it open in a way that the client can't. Even if it takes whacking a key into a lock 15 or so times.

by **doyle** » 24 Oct 2005 6:30

the lock is plain deadbolt....

when u pick it and turn 180 degrees , it stucks, but that isn't a problem(u just press a bit at the bottom of the plug and then it turns again)... but the problem is when u reach the 360 degrees aka the original position before picking the lock, then the pins go back to their old position and the lock stucks...

Is it any way to pass the pin position recovery applying pressure somewhere, somehow.

In my country deadbolts usually are locked twice. so that means theres only way to unlock the lock is to pick it twice?

by **Chrispy** » 24 Oct 2005 6:39

A plug spinner I suppose.

by **Dimmy Locks** » 24 Oct 2005 6:39

If you dont have a plug spinner u could try this.

Pick the lock then rotate it around to about 350 degrees, (just before the pins frop back into keyway) then using a cut off key so u are left with the handle and just enough of the shank to fit into the lock before the 1st pin stack.
Grab a strong non flexible bar or piece of timber about 12" -18" long and hold it tight either with thumb and fingers or bonded somehow against the key now in lock. Hit the other end of the rod/ wood with a heavy hammer. The idea is that u strike it hard and fast enough to act like a plug spinner, too fast for the pins to drop back in keyway as the key spins past.

I've never tried this, but in theory it should work.

by **Dimmy Locks** » 24 Oct 2005 6:52

Amendment to earlier posting.
I've just tried that on my front door, (upvc with euro cylinder).

2 hits and it failed both times, fearing bending or damaging the pins, I packed cotton thread down the side of the pins with my pick to apply side pressure to the pins while in the picked position and core turned. re tried with the rod/hammer trick (used old broom handle end I had in van) and hey presto all but front pin held, i picked that ( its a very shallow pin , maybe no.0 or no.1 and perhaps thats why the cotton didnt hold it) quick rub with pick and the plug turned.

by **Shrub** » 24 Oct 2005 8:27

Yes a spinner should do it then,

If you dont have a spinner put an eleastic band on the end of your tension wrench, hold the wrench and stretch the band, let go of the wrench and it will spin past the 360' ponit,

We dont discuss bypass methods in the open forum and the only way to bypass your lock is by damaging the lock so you need to replace it :wink:

by **vector40** » 24 Oct 2005 13:10

Dimmy Locks wrote:I came across one of those a while ago, it turns out it took 5 full rotations to wind in the 7 point latch mechanism. not realising this at 1st, and having picked and rotated twice I was becoming a little frustrated ( customers helful comment " I just keep turning until it opens"). My solution was to partly turn the cylinder, then "guesstimate" with my pick the pin depths, rough cut a blank, rotated the lock back again and impressioned. ( my 1st on site impressioning that wasnt a wafer lock <smugmode enabled>). another alternative might be an attempt at bumping, although bumping the same lock 5 times may be a struggle, and hardly looks professional?

Any reason you didn't use a plug spinner?

Pin Tumbler Lock rotations

Pin Tumbler Lock rotations

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