Prank that went to far.... now what.

[pickmonger]

A fictional senario based on something that really happened to me.

I gave someone some information that they misused and I am trying to sort out a real mess.

Superintendent of a 43 unit apartment building, after being replaced by the landlord's son, decided to leave a little surprise for his new replacement.

There happens to be trick where hard to copy keys are created. Often employers or landlords do not want extra keys being copied and this technique at least makes it harder to copy the keys, if not impossible.

Like an idiot I mentioned it to the super.

When done correctly, a fixed amount is ground off the bottom of the key ... Later when being copied, that can be compensated for with a piece of shim stock and the cut key will work.

My friend however took the ring of keys for all 43 units, and ground down the bottom of each key. Each was shaved by a random amount to prevent shim stock being used to correct the problem.

Now, when the key is seated in the key copying machine, it sits too low and at a bit of an angle. All cuts are out of whack and produce useless copies of the keys.

Am I correct in assuming that none of the keys can be properly cut by a normal key cutter?

What suggestions do you have for the locksmith that tries to cut working copies?

[Buggs41]

The keys can be cut to code. You just have do decipher what cuts are supposed to be on the key, and space them properly.

[Shrub]

Well you may find as on my machine that the vice jaws can be turned around and you can grip on the warding which would sort your problem out.

[Chucklz]

Looks like you need to cut a set by code and have it kept quite safe.

[Varjeal]

Sounds like a bunch of keys need to be recut by code, then re-shaved. I've heard of that trick being used before to foil duplication, works nice as long as everyone plays nice, but when it gets messed up....oh boy.....

Shrub makes a good point I hadn't really thought of. Higher quality duplicators have 4-way jaws, at least one of which can be used to grip on the lower warding of the key. This would have to be tested though since I'm not sure it would grip flat very securely.

If you have access to a good quality duplicator though, give it a try and report back.

[TOWCH]

Compare the cuts in relation to the warding to a set of depth keys, and cut to code from there.

[Omikron]

A fictional senario based on something that really happened to me.

I gave someone some information that they misused and I am trying to sort out a real mess.

Superintendent of a 43 unit apartment building, after being replaced by the landlord's son, decided to leave a little surprise for his new replacement.

There happens to be trick where hard to copy keys are created. Often employers or landlords do not want extra keys being copied and this technique at least makes it harder to copy the keys, if not impossible.

Like an idiot I mentioned it to the super.

When done correctly, a fixed amount is ground off the bottom of the key ... Later when being copied, that can be compensated for with a piece of shim stock and the cut key will work.

My friend however took the ring of keys for all 43 units, and ground down the bottom of each key. Each was shaved by a random amount to prevent shim stock being used to correct the problem.

Now, when the key is seated in the key copying machine, it sits too low and at a bit of an angle. All cuts are out of whack and produce useless copies of the keys.

Am I correct in assuming that none of the keys can be properly cut by a normal key cutter?

What suggestions do you have for the locksmith that tries to cut working copies?

Rekey everything.

Just kidding. Seriously though, that sounds like less of a prank and more like sabotage. I'm fairly certain there's a law or two about what he did.

You could try inserting each key into a lock, and measuring the gap between the key and the bottom of the keyway, but that would only work if the grinding was done flat and didn't vary along the length of the key.

Failing that, it seems that the best way is what others have mentioned before me. Find a duplicator to grip the key by the wards instead of by the bow, hang on to your little guys, and hope for the best.

[Shrub]

Be gentle cutting if holding on a flat with jaws meant for the warding, they can flick out if you try to take a big cut too quickly.

[zeke79]

Just as Shrub stated go slowly. If you have a combo that you have determined to be a 48359, start by code cutting all 3's and then work to 46356, and then starting again make the final cuts of 48539. This will help keep the key in the vise when clamping on warding and will also make cutting keys that split easily much easier. I hope that makes sense, as I am talking about how I do it on an ITL950 which most major codes are stored on the unit itself. You just select the manufacturers code, the cuts, and then install the blank, crank it over and it cuts the key according to your code entered.

[raimundo]

I learned a long time ago how to make some keys uncopiable,
the top half of the keyway, where the pins are, is often offset to one side or the other of the pin tips, Some keys like the yale, will meander accross this area, normal keys are cut to seat the pins on flat bottoms of the cuts, but years ago, while impressioning a key, I did not file straight accross the edge, but because the impressions were coming on an edge, I was filing at something like a 45 degree angle and seating the bevel of the pin tips on the slope of this. Any copy made of this key would be cut High, and could be quickly impressioned down to the workable key
just giving that in case it ever becomes useful