Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

Binding

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Binding

Postby smurfadoodle » 24 Mar 2006 17:37

Hi, Im new to lock picking and just a little question I need help with ..

I read the MIT Guide and seen the 'Flatland Model' used to describe the 'Binding' method. But I'm wondering, as you see in this picture where the bottom plate moves .. What area do I add pressure to so the bottom half that holds the bottom pins in the 'Pin Tumbler Lock' moves? In other words .. How do I do the 'Binding' method on the 'Pin Tumbler Lock'?

Image
smurfadoodle
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 Mar 2006 17:26

Postby Chucklz » 24 Mar 2006 18:11

You apply tension with the torque wrench. Cheers.
Chucklz
 
Posts: 3097
Joined: 4 Nov 2003 17:58
Location: Philadelphia

Postby pizarro » 24 Mar 2006 19:12

try to rotate the lock barrel, the reason why you can pick a lock one pin at a time is that it is impossible to manufacture a perfect lock.
Image
No i can't spell, and yes i'm dyslexic.
pizarro
 
Posts: 225
Joined: 16 Jan 2006 11:02
Location: South-East England, UK

Postby smurfadoodle » 25 Mar 2006 7:52

So when I apply tension, trying to turn the plug to the left, i push the bottom pin up so the bottom of the top pin goes above the shear line, then the tension makes the bottom shear line bit rotate a tiny little bit, so the top pin can rest on it? That right .. Sorry Im just really confused.
smurfadoodle
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 Mar 2006 17:26

Postby illusion » 25 Mar 2006 7:54

Yes, that's correct.

Although you do not always apply tension in the same direction. Some locks will pick easier when turning one way, as opposed to turning to the other.

The plug/barrel will move and keep the top pin up there. :)
illusion
 
Posts: 4567
Joined: 2 Sep 2005 13:47

Postby jordyh » 25 Mar 2006 7:56

Direction in rotation doesn't matter, right is as good as left, in general.

Anyway, you got it right.
That's how picking works, theoretically.
For the rest, it's practice, practice and practice (and some occasional reading on models of locks).

Good luck picking, and if you have questions, just ask.
jordyh
 
Posts: 877
Joined: 15 Dec 2005 8:01

Postby smurfadoodle » 25 Mar 2006 7:57

But Im still puzzled as how the bottom part of the plug will turn a tiny fraction if the rest of the pins are keeping it from doing so. What is the bottom half under the shear line called?
smurfadoodle
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 Mar 2006 17:26

Postby jordyh » 25 Mar 2006 7:57

Gah, you got me to it, Ben. 8)
jordyh
 
Posts: 877
Joined: 15 Dec 2005 8:01

Postby illusion » 25 Mar 2006 8:04

jordyh wrote:Gah, you got me to it, Ben. 8)


lol... I know I have to get a life when I'm racing people to reply. :lol:

Well, you are actualy dead right, and few people have asked this before. If the holes were all straight then the plug wouldn't move because the other pins would stop it - please bear in mind that they would have to be perfectly straight.

The problem is that the holes are never completely straight, and so there is a small distance between each pin that WILL allow the plug to move slightly.

I must say I'm impressed you asked this. :)
illusion
 
Posts: 4567
Joined: 2 Sep 2005 13:47

Postby skold » 25 Mar 2006 8:12

illusion wrote:
jordyh wrote:Gah, you got me to it, Ben. 8)


lol... I know I have to get a life when I'm racing people to reply. :lol:

Well, you are actualy dead right, and few people have asked this before. If the holes were all straight then the plug wouldn't move because the other pins would stop it - please bear in mind that they would have to be perfectly straight.

The problem is that the holes are never completely straight, and so there is a small distance between each pin that WILL allow the plug to move slightly.

I must say I'm impressed you asked this. :)


Not only is binding a result of sloppy tolerances/slight imperfections it can also be a result of the pins inside, Not one pin i have seen fits in the holes perfectly, they are usually a tenth of a mm or less too small.
Image
skold
 
Posts: 2250
Joined: 24 Feb 2004 3:59
Location: Australia

Postby smurfadoodle » 25 Mar 2006 8:30

jordyh wrote:Direction in rotation doesn't matter, right is as good as left, in general.


I was about the ask a stupid question but I this picture ...

Image

I was going to say the only way I could rest the pins would be by turning the bottom this way ..

Image

But now I know the opposite would work just as well because the pins could do the same on the other side too. Thanks.
smurfadoodle
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 Mar 2006 17:26

Postby Shrub » 25 Mar 2006 9:13

Just to clarify for you when the above have mentioed the holes arent straight it is meant that the 5 or 6 holes the pins are in arent all exactally in line with each other, the better the lock is made the more inline the pins are and the harder to get a single pin binding is,

As skold says the mixture of the pins being a smaller diameter than the holes also helps pins bind.

If you look at the picture you put above, imagine if the holes for the pins were pin 1 at 1 o'clock, pin 2 at 2 o'clock, pin 3 at 3 o'clock etc etc you would be able to pick pin 1 then turn the plug to 2 o'clock to pick pin 2 and so on, the way picking works is the same princible except the pins arent that far apart :wink:
Shrub
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 11576
Joined: 23 May 2005 4:03
Location: uk

bindin

Postby raimundo » 25 Mar 2006 11:56

I just skimmed the thread but if no one else has mentioned it, the tensor itself can sometimes bind. the test is to release your hold on it, and if its loose in the keyway, its not binding, but if its stuck, even slightly, it is pinching between part of the plug and the cylinder wall. thats why its nice to have a few different widths of tensor, and also why a tensor with sharp square edges should be sanded to round those edges.
raimundo
 
Posts: 7130
Joined: 21 Apr 2004 9:02
Location: Minnneapolis

Postby smurfadoodle » 26 Mar 2006 15:57

I've tried, but it just isnt working. I apply pressure to a direction, but how do I know when the bottom of the top pin has just gone past the shear line apart from being able to turn it a little bit? It confuses me because the first bottom pin just looks the same after I do it. Do I repeat this procedure with all the pins, so each top pin that passes the shear line rotates the plug another fraction?
smurfadoodle
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 Mar 2006 17:26

Postby jordyh » 26 Mar 2006 15:58

Yes, single pin picking is about picking pin after pin, in whatever order is needed, so it wil open.
For the rest, it's all practice.

Yours,

Jordy
jordyh
 
Posts: 877
Joined: 15 Dec 2005 8:01

Next

Return to Got Questions? - Ask Beginner Hobby Lockpicking Questions Here

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests