Create a new masterkey

by **briandugas** » 12 Apr 2006 0:51

I am new to this site, and I'm enjoying everthing so far. I'm having trouble finding some good information on masterkeying. I have some rental properties, and I'm working with my dad, who has many more. We would like to get a master key system going. I understand the logic behind it, but there seems to be a lot of numbers involved. I'd love some pointers.
We use Kwickset primarily.
Thanks.
Brian

by **maxxed** » 12 Apr 2006 2:42

Masterkeying is fairly straight forward, you should have a way to cut keys by code so that there is a way to maintain the integrity of the system. If you can not cut the keys yourself you may find a local locksmith who will precut a system for you.
Do you know how to rekey a lock?
Do you have a pin kit and tools?

by **Raccoon** » 12 Apr 2006 2:51

Kwikset cylinders are not ideal for mastering systems. This is because Kwikset ranges from 1-6 in a single pin stack, where other brands range 1-9 or 0-9. If you are mastering a large number of locks under a single key, you may also want more than 5 pins. I'd recommend 7 for greatest flexibility and security.

Of course, if you're working with existing locks, asking you to change out every cylinder is pretty unreasonable. I just wouldn't bother with a master system on these locks.

It's also a good idea to rekey rental properties every time you get a new tenant, so worrying about your master system(s) every other week is perhaps more of a hassle than keeping a copy of every tenant's key on hand.

There's also the fact that Kwikset locks are extremely easy to pick. Adding additional sheer lines only weakens its already weak security.

by **p1ckf1sh** » 12 Apr 2006 6:02

briandugas wrote:I have some rental properties, and I'm working with my dad, who has many more. We would like to get a master key system going.

I do not know what kind of rental property you refer to, be it apartments, holiday houses or whatever. One thing to keep in mind on masterkey systems is, that anyone with ANY key to a lock and a hour of time and some knowledge can replicate that masterkey by removing and disassembling the lock, measuring it up and cutting a proper key.

I'd just keep it in mind, it could be a source of possible trouble. Masterkey systems are for example forbidden in german apartment house buildings. There are multiple reasons, but I think the scenario above is a reason as well...

Just my 2 cents...

by **vector40** » 12 Apr 2006 6:59

For the reasons mentioned -- primarily that Kwikset and masterkeying don't really go together (security reasons stemming from the already-high tolerances and relatively few bit possibilities -- making cross-keying super possible -- as well as the more basic reason that it's just generally like making a turtle wear a tuxedo) -- I would not really recommend this.

It's not worth the convenience.

by **zeke79** » 12 Apr 2006 8:02

One must keep in mind here that the masterkeying would only be done to one level on each lock. Kwikset is easily capable of this but for reliability one should not use the 2 smallest sizes of master pins as they have a tendency to lodge between the shell and plug or spin vertically in the pin chamber.

This system could easily be setup and function fine. Yes there are better alternatives and yes blanks are easy to obtain so it is a risk. The only way around that is to go to a protected keyway such as medeco or schlage primus, etc.

See www.locksportarchives.com/KW1.pdf and www.locksportarchives.com/KW2.pdf for examples of a 25 unit system.

by **Chucklz** » 12 Apr 2006 10:19

Kwikset depths can go 0-8 in a MK system. The 8 depth is not exactly a standard, but I've seen it done.

Personally I would suggest you convert to Schlage locks. You can get locks of a much higher quailty and durability. Use a 6 pin system, with neuter bow keys. Don't use the C keyway. You can use the CE, E, F, EF, G, FG keyways in seperate larger installations reusing the same pinning, and simply use an L master section blank for your highest level master key.

by **zeke79** » 12 Apr 2006 11:17

I agree with changing to a new locking system such as schlage and using less common keyways. The only problem may be cost of changing hardware to accomodate those locks. If I were going to change from the kwikset and stay on the cheaper side I would skip the schlage and go with a semi restricted system such as the RX which is by US Locks if I recall correctly.

by **Raccoon** » 12 Apr 2006 11:40

zeke79 wrote:See www.locksportarchives.com/KW1.pdf and www.locksportarchives.com/KW2.pdf for examples of a 25 unit system.

PS. Those files are reversed in name.

by **zeke79** » 12 Apr 2006 13:09

Doesnt mater really as one is a key bitting chart and the other contains the pinning info for the cylinders. Hehehe, thats what happens when I do things early in the morning though :lol:

.

by **Raccoon** » 12 Apr 2006 13:41

Why are the bitings for the master key lower than the bitings for the change keys? I thought it was common convention to give master pins the higher biting so change keys can't be filed down into master keys.

by **Chucklz** » 12 Apr 2006 14:22

Two bitting positions on the MK are higher than the change keys. Thus it is protected from filing to a master bitting.

by **zeke79** » 12 Apr 2006 14:24

Chucklz wrote:Two bitting positions on the MK are higher than the change keys. Thus it is protected from filing to a master bitting.

This system is designed to be safe from recutting so Chucklz is correct.

by **maxxed** » 12 Apr 2006 17:10

I think the original poster wanted a master system for conveniece, for his application the Kwickset will function. I'm sure that as he get's more into the security and better educated he will eventually consider better systems, everyone has to start somewhere.

by **briandugas** » 12 Apr 2006 18:47

Wow, thanks for all the replies.

The rental units are houses, and some have higher turnover rates than others. I know, as being a property manager, every cost counts. So when I go to the hardware store to find locks, I don't look for the most expensive, but I don't look for the cheapest either. Kwickset is on the lower half of the scale, but they aren't the cheapest. I'm still learning all the terminology, but I did follow most of this thread. I understand what it means that Kwickset only has a 0-6 pin system. And it does make sense that Schlage would be more secure, but in all likely-hood, Kwickset will be the lock of choice.
I think I'll pass on the Masterkey idea. I'm going to order a Kwickset repinning kit. That way I can at least make the front door and back door match on these houses. It drives me nuts to need 3 keys for the separate door locks and deadbolts on a house.
As I aquire more rentals and more money, I'll probably switch over to a better, and more secure lock system.

Thanks to all who replied.
Brian

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