narrow and heavily warded keyways

by **Argus** » 9 May 2006 11:31

hello, I am new to this forum but not new to lockpicking.

however, I am in europe, and it seems to be customary here to have both very narrow and heavily warded keyways when compared to US locks.

while I have no problems opening wider locks like on mailboxes, I just don't have enough space in most locks even for home-made extra slim tools.

does anyone else have this problem, and how do you deal with it?

by **Shrub** » 9 May 2006 11:33

Yes it is a problem, a mix of tools is needed, some heavily modified ones in most cases.

I think its these types of locks that need a good bump key making.

by **Argus** » 9 May 2006 11:35

when you say heavily modified, do you just mean very slim and fragile tools or any special pick design?

thanks for the help.

by **illusion** » 9 May 2006 11:35

If you haven't already tried using Southord slimline picks then I guess this would be the first piece of advice.

Some keyways like Evva are evil, and I've seen some that make me question the possibility of even inserting slimline picks. I guess for these piano wire MIGHT be an option to get something thin enough.

by **Shrub** » 9 May 2006 11:39

For those that havent seen some of the EVVA stuff,

Modified as in start with a slimline and bend it the fit the keyway or grind it smaller.

by **illusion** » 9 May 2006 11:40

Slimline picks work just fine on lock with paracentric keyways like this:

by **raimundo** » 9 May 2006 11:49

Piano wire gives a pick shaft that is fully round, and cannot be inhibited in turning along the shaft, the pick tip, should be a hook, and the wire should be sanded smooth on this tip. this will inhibit the rotation of the shaft, but it will also be in a pin drilling where the wards are not so bad. You didn't say what part of europe you are from, but TOOOL or SSdev in holland or germany will be of help on the euro locks. they have some of the worlds best lockpickers and are very open about helping beginners.

by **taylorgdl** » 9 May 2006 11:53

A couple of beautiful locks above. Aren't they works of art !
What did you use on the Wink Haus Illusion ?

G.

by **pinsetter** » 9 May 2006 11:53

On the EVVA and Winkhaus cylinders that are shown do the wards go all the way through the keyway or are some of them just at the entrance?

I have never seen any keyways like that here in the states.

The winkhaus looks like a slim pick would be fine, but the EVVA appears that the wards actually overlap, and that would be very hard to overcome if the wards follow the entire length of the keyway and the wards are drilled for the pins (which I would assume is the case).

They look evil, but living here I'll probably never see any of them.

Ahh well, at least in a few days I should have that ASSA twin to play with!

by **Shrub** » 9 May 2006 11:57

Yes the wards go the full length.

I will often use a thin and small pick and simply angle it around the wards but this EVVA may need some looking at, ive not had it long.

by **illusion** » 9 May 2006 11:59

What did you use on the Wink Haus Illusion ?

Southord slimline standard hook, fairly easy to maneuver inside the lock.

Pinsetter: the wards go all the way through the plug.

The Wink Haus is deffinately the lesser of two evils, and I can see myself struggling on the Evva.

by **taylorgdl** » 9 May 2006 12:02

I've just got an account at Aldridges, I might have to get one to play with.

by **pinsetter** » 9 May 2006 12:10

Good luck with the EVVA Shrub!
I also can see that the pins sit right on top of a ward to further complicate things.

Don't know how far off I am here, but I think I'd try a thin pick with a long reach hook, possibly bent a little, and a tension wrench that I could either place in the top of the keyway or one that would take up VERY LITTLE of the bottom. Without having the lock here to actually play with it is just hard to tell what could really work.

by **Eyes_Only** » 9 May 2006 12:10

Are every Evva profile cylinders made with these difficult paracentric keyways or just the SKG model?

by **Shrub** » 9 May 2006 13:23

Evva have differant keyways,

Ive done it, it was a hard pick for me, the hardest ive done in a while to be honest but that was in part down to the keying, it appears to have a sidebar as well but i think its more for key restriction as it didnt have the be picked rather the picks had to be kept away from it.

The biting is a very high last pin with the next one being the lowest and that need to be left resting on the ward !!

Anyway its open,

narrow and heavily warded keyways

narrow and heavily warded keyways

Piano wire

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