Dumb Noobie Question

[Bud Wiser]

I did try to search for this question but could not find it any where. I thought for sure it would have been asked before or covered before.

I'm sure we have all seen lock pickers on TV and movies pick a lock with out a tension wrench and just a simple pick in like 5 seconds. I realize this is seriously over played but it made me wonder if it was possible to pick a lock with out a tension wrench?

I know that on cheaper locks it's easy with just a pick, but would it be possible on better quality locks? Could a pick be made to act like a pick and used to turn (open) the lock?

If this has been covered I apologise but I did spend a lot of time searching before I asked. May be a new stickie is in order, the top 100 dumbiest questions

thx in advance for any replies!

[p1ckf1sh]

I'm sure we have all seen lock pickers on TV and movies pick a lock with out a tension wrench and just a simple pick in like 5 seconds. I realize this is seriously over played but it made me wonder if it was possible to pick a lock with out a tension wrench?

No. There might be situations of improper installations in locks that could result in the plug being constantly under tension, maybe in KIK locks, but I am not too sure about this, I have not torn apart a KIK before. On the locks I have experience with, euro cylinders mostly, it is just plain impossible.

I know that on cheaper locks it's easy with just a pick, but would it be possible on better quality locks? Could a pick be made to act like a pick and used to turn (open) the lock?

So you just asked if it was possible to pick locks without a tension wrench, now you say you know it works on cheap locks? How is that supposed to work and what do you define as a cheap lock? The only way this is going to work is by using the pick itself to tension the lock, but by doing so you will have real trouble maneuvering the pick and getting feedback from the individual pins. And regarding the last sentence, even if the lock is open I would not use the pick to turn it. Much too easy to damage the pick.

[Bud Wiser]

on cheap pad locks all you need is a cheap home made pick even out of a coat hanger and they just spring open. I'm sure some one will point out why it's possible with them, but couldn't help wondering if it was possible with just a pick on more conventional locks. thx

[p1ckf1sh]

on cheap pad locks all you need is a cheap home made pick even out of a coat hanger and they just spring open. I'm sure some one will point out why it's possible with them, but couldn't help wondering if it was possible with just a pick on more conventional locks. thx

That is not picking, but a special form of bypass. With that pick or coat hanger you can reach to the end of the keyway and manipulate the clutch somehow, effectively triggering the unlock mechanism. That way you get the lock popping open, but as said it is not picking but a form of bypass enabled by lazy engineering.

Something like this will not work on any kind of deadbolt or eurocylinder I know of. And it is especially impossible (what a word) in picking padlocks, because when picking a padlock you need even stronger tension to overcome the spring that is rotating the plug back.

[toiletplumber]

maybe like a pick with a really weak form of plugspinner that applies a light torque on the lock..... you would have the pick up on top and somehow you would have to suspend the REALLY weak plug spinner type mechanism under it so it doesn't go back and forth with the pick..... but at that point the pick would probably become too cumbersom and would be hard to pick with.

[Krypos]

and i quote the book "easy pickings"

(on the topic of tension wrenches) you will sometimes notice that in most television detective dramas that you will never see this mysterious device when our hero is opening a lock. let's set the record straight. there is no way in helll that you will open any pin tumbler lock without using a tension wrench.

thats that. notice it says pin tumbler, perhaps other locks, but pin tumblers just require that tension to bind the pins. hope that helps.

[HeadHunterCEO]

entirely possible on a rim cylinder inncorectly installed to a panic device.

other than that i could not think of a way

[digital_blue]

Well... actually....

It *can* be done. No kidding. I've messed with this a bit just to see if I could, and guess what... it can. Here were the conditions:

Firstly, I did it on a Kwikset knockoff deadbolt.
Secondly, in this instance the lock was only pinned with 4 of the 5 possible pins. I may have been able to do it with all 5, but that's not what I had in the lock at the time.
Thirdly, it was a nasty thing to do to my pick.
Lastly, the one missing pin was the front pin, so this may have aided in this working.

But, it is possible to apply turning pressure with the pick itself. Remember that it doesn't take much tension to bind a pin. While applying turning pressure with the pick, I was able to set the pins none the less. I was using a homemade half diamond pick that I didn't mind messing up. There were times that I was just sure the pick would give and break, but I was able actually make it work.

So... *can* it be done? Well, yes... under exactly the right conditions. Should it be done? Only if you're bored and messing around, as I was.

db

[p1ckf1sh]

It *can* be done. No kidding. I've messed with this a bit just to see if I could, and guess what... it can. Here were the conditions:

Firstly, I did it on a Kwikset knockoff deadbolt.

Come on... Can it be done on a REAL lock?

But, it is possible to apply turning pressure with the pick itself. Remember that it doesn't take much tension to bind a pin. While applying turning pressure with the pick, I was able to set the pins none the less. I was using a homemade half diamond pick that I didn't mind messing up. There were times that I was just sure the pick would give and break, but I was able actually make it work.

What with security pins? I think that would have thrown you out on this test, or do you think you could have done it?

So... *can* it be done? Well, yes... under exactly the right conditions. Should it be done? Only if you're bored and messing around, as I was.

OK, if the answers won't fit the question, rephrase the question. On a side note, I always make the mistake of underestimating the cheapness of Kwiksets etc. To me a "simple lock" that was referred to in the OP question is a BKS 5 pin with only 2 spools. Bad if you are used to european locks. I also think on an euro lock the tension with a pick thingy would be tricky due to the tighter keyway and warding. But I am not going to try this, I'd hate buying even more hacksaw blades.

[Krypos]

so then your pick was twisted much like a flex twist tension wrench afterwards? then ya, i wouldnt do it with anything.

although, i did (prior to getting my picks) use a bowtie shaped paperclip thing to make a strange pick, and it worked on my safe (which has 2 wafers...weeaaaaaaaaaak) and i could use the pick (which was very thick) to pick and apply a tension, but it was very thick and was on a very easy lock. which was wafers. so it doesnt really count. but yeh.

[Bud Wiser]

on cheap pad locks all you need is a cheap home made pick even out of a coat hanger and they just spring open. I'm sure some one will point out why it's possible with them, but couldn't help wondering if it was possible with just a pick on more conventional locks. thx

That is not picking, but a special form of bypass. With that pick or coat hanger you can reach to the end of the keyway and manipulate the clutch somehow, effectively triggering the unlock mechanism. That way you get the lock popping open, but as said it is not picking but a form of bypass enabled by lazy engineering.

Something like this will not work on any kind of deadbolt or eurocylinder I know of. And it is especially impossible (what a word) in picking padlocks, because when picking a padlock you need even stronger tension to overcome the spring that is rotating the plug back.

So do those cheap pad locks you can open with a coat hanger, do they even use pins?

[Bahrg]

Before I knew anything about picking years ago, I use to use a nail file on fingernail clippers to pick many cheap wafer locks. I just applied pressure and rocked the file up and down. I cant imagine this working on a decent lock however.

[Deathadder]

So do those cheap pad locks you can open with a coat hanger, do they even use pins?

yeah they use pins, but there is a little latch in the back that operates the lock, and with a coatwire you can lift it, effectively opening the lock

[CVScam]

I started out just using one pick because I had seen it on TV. I could do some cheap wafer locks and some master locks if they had an easy pin setup. I had some luck on kwicksets about 1/2 of them I see I can do with my one pick. If you are tring to make a tool for one handed one tool picking you want as thick as you can fit in the keyway so the tension don't bend it. The hard part is the last pin because you have the least amount of tool in the lock you are tring to hold tension with the hook as you lift the pin. I found a lot of locks I could do one direction only, if the lock has a wierd pin binding you are out of luck. If I can find my video camera I will make a video doing some kwicksets.