Need help here guys.

[paulyboy]

Happy New Year to everyone ! Got a little problem and was wondering if anyone has any Ideas. Varjeal will probably know the answer to this.
I have recently been to my friends new appartment, its in a brand new built appartment block of 150 units. So I had a go at picking his door lock, and to my suprise, it only took about 30 seconds, but when I turned the cylinder all the way round, it never unlocked the door. I have turned the cylinder round and round, both ways, but it will not pull the latch across.
The lock just looks like a normal Euro Cylinder, but there is a master key, which the Concierge has for all the appartments, this is probably the reason, can anyone tell me what I need to do to pick this lock ??

Thanks in advance. Paulyboy.

[Chubby]

The lock just looks like a normal Euro Cylinder

What about on the inside of the appartment, is there a key barrel there?also, is the lock morticed or is it just fixed to the door? if it is morticed and you do have a euro-cylinder in there (Probabely a half) is there a retaining screw at the edge of the door? there are locks that from the outside of the door could be mistaken for a euro-cylinder, when in fact the complete lock is all one unit, but they are usally affixed to the door from the inside of the appartment against the woodwork and they nearly always have a round cylinder on the inside (similar to chubb/yale) hows he lock it from inside? what's the brand name?
I have come up against something similar but I don't want to start posting foto's etc. if I'm just going off in the wrong direction...

[paulyboy]

Hi Chubby, Thanks for the speedy reply, I knew I could rely on you or varjeal. I wont know the make of the lock untill I next go there ( next week ), but on the Inside of the door, there is no key barrel, you lock it by turning a Lug type thing, I'm not sure if it is morticed or not, but what I can remember about the edge of the door, it could well be. Its the same type of sash anyway. The key is just a one sided ( yale type ) key, and the lock looks like a euro cylinder but obviously only one sided. When I turn the lock with the key, it takes a bit of pressure, obviously because it is sliding the bolt back in, but when I turn the cylinder with my picks, it just turns very easily. I have just phoned my mate and he tells me the make is ISEO , ( made in Italy ). If I need to, I can get him to take a picture and email it to me, and post it. Hope this is enough info for you.
Thanks again. Paulyboy.

[Chubby]

paulyboy
I doubt if it was morticed, and I think you will find it is harder to turn with a key than with a pick is because the key engages an extra pin when inserted into the keyway which in turn will enter the cam which in turn allows you to move the bolt across when the cam is rotated.
Below foto #1 shows a plug which I imagine is similar to the one you have, the silver chequered plate is normally flush against the cam inside of the lock, the middle pin allows the plug to rotate, but the cam will not rotate unless the cam pin is engaged foto #2 shows the key pushing the pin into place #3 shows the plug with cam #4 the pin is now engaged into the cam and both plug and cam will turn in unison. The trick is to push the cam pin in and keep it there (because it has a return spring) before & during picking, then you should be able move the bolt, if you try to pick the lock then engage the cam pin it won't engage, it is perfectly set up so that the cam pin will only fit into the cam when the pin stacks are aligned too! so you thought it was easy to pick eh! mine was the same once I figured it out I thought my problems were over but my bolt will only open fully after turning the plug 360º X2, so after the first complete turn I then had to avoid having the driver pins engage the plug again (Plug spinner) all great fun...The last foto #5 shows the cylinder with the plug back inside, the back flange will be screwed to the lock mechanism which is why I asked if it was a complete unit or not, this is an old lock but as you can see when there is only the front of the cylinder showing it does look like a euro-profile. I only hope this is of help...

[paulyboy]

Chubby, Your blood is worth bottling ! What a guy ! What you have told me there sounds absolutely spot on. When I was picking the lock, I could feel something at the back which I could push back and to, and it was springy, so that sounds like the cam pin you mentioned. I can see what I need to do, but just wondering how to do it. Do I use a seperate tool to push this pin forward while I pick the pins ???
Thank you very much for your post and all the pictures, you are a gentleman. Cheers for now. Paulyboy.