I need a good outdoor lock w/ restricted keyway

[Squelchtone]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for a good outdoor lock to be on the vehicle gate to private a shooting range. I'm a thinking of something along the lines of an ABLOY 350/50 with EXEC level 4 keyway.

Here's the expensive part. I need 1,300 keys to cover all the members, and I do not want them to be able to make copies at the local hardware store.


What in your opinion is a good lock, for outdoor gate use, something made of brass or chromed brass, good for rain and snow, with restricted keyways.

So far I can only think of Medeco and ABLOY. Any other padlock makers out there with restricted keys? Mul-t-lock maybe? oh, and something with a keyway dust cover.

Thanks for your help,

Squelchtone

[unbreakable]

Well, the Schlage Primus might be an option, as they'd be quite difficult to duplicate. But I don't know about their warding, or if they have a dust cover.

But they'd meet the "can't be duplicated at a hardware store" point.

It certainly would be worth looking into.

I also saw a "scorpion" padlock on ebay about a week ago, it looked like a scanlock (i think scorpion bought out scanlock, or something like that).


Other than that, Abloy or Medeco as you said would be quite good.

One thing to keep in mind though is that although most high security locks cant be duplicated at a local locksmith, they can be copied in clay, and then cast.
This method works on most high security keys from what I understand.
Although I can't see it working on an Assa V-10......

Another point is that you might want something other than a padlock, as a padlock can be left open....


I hope some of this might help, and I hope my rambling hasn't bothered you

[Squelchtone]

Well, the Schlage Primus might be an option, as they'd be quite difficult to duplicate. But I don't know about their warding, or if they have a dust cover.

I didn't know that core could be put in a padlock. But I guess anything is possible these days

One thing to keep in mind though is that although most high security locks cant be duplicated at a local locksmith, they can be copied in clay, and then cast.
This method works on most high security keys from what I understand.
Although I can't see it working on an Assa V-10......

This is a secure place, but I don't think our members would impression keys just to give a buddy a copy. but I wouldn't put it past them to go to Home Depot to make a copy. Basically, I'm not afraid of KGB spies, just members trying to not pay their member dues and letting friends in who have also not payed member dues and signed insurance forms and such. It IS a live fire range after all.

Another point is that you might want something other than a padlock, as a padlock can be left open....

I just don't think we can install a Medeco deadbolt on a gate in the middle of the woods. We do badger members to not leave the gate unlocked once they drive in. They're actually really good at locking up. =)

this is the type of gate we have:
http://www.geocities.com/ftolh/GameOver/pix_show/Dcp_0559_trail-gate.jpg

I hope some of this might help, and I hope my rambling hasn't bothered you

not at all, rambling is a good way of vocalizing ideas.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Squelchtone

[UWSDWF]

saw this awhile back the key appears to be abloy style and it has a flashlight on it.... no HD is gonna have the machine to copy it

http://www.onguardlock.com/chains.html

[devildog]

Abloy Classic, hands down, no doubt.

It's BY FAR the best choice for an outdoors padlock that's going to be left up and generally neglected for long periods of time--zeke recently informed me that sidebar locks (medeco, primus) are subject to jamming and breaking when used outside and left untouched for periods of time, which was why he was choosing an Abloy 350 exec for his shed.

The abloy, as you probably already know, is extremely resistant to weathering and corrosion due to the rotating disc mechanism and chrome plating of just about any steel on it. I recommend the Classic cylinder because it will be cheapest and you really don't need to worry about members who can pick a classic but oh no they wouldn't be able to pick an exec--I mean come on, there's no actual NEED for an Exec instead of Classic.

I'd personally recommend an 250/350 or 242/342 with the Classic (or Exec if you want it or there's no difference in price, which I kinda suspect there would be) cylinder. Here's some examples of the two I'd recommend that just went on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260018153138&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260018156516&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016


Here's the best place to check out Abloy's product line, it's the U.K. site but Abloy doesn't really have a general international site where you can see this sort of stuff:

http://www.abloysecurity.co.uk/html/products/padlocks/index.asp

Oh! And another excellent choice would be an Ingersoll 'Impregnable' 700 Series, which is a 10-lever lock that is very well known to be excellent for outside use such as what you want, it's very corrosion-resistant and reliable, although to get more than the usual 3 keys that comes with it you'd probably have to have a U.K. lockie cut them out for you, but I don't imagine that would be much more, if any more, expensive than having a local lockie cut you a bunch of Abloy keys. Here's a good example of a nice one that went on ebay recently; this is fully shrouded version:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=020&item=300016414498&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

[zeke79]

Just to clarify what happens a bit on most sidebar locks when neglected for long periods of time. It all depends on the climate and area the lock is placed so keep this in mind. I recently chose abloy due to the the high amount of dust and grime in the location my lock was going to be subjected to. In the past I have used Primus in the area and the lock would would be very dirty after several months of use and the sidebar would become sticky to the point the lock needed cleaned or the risk or breaking keys became higher.

This can be combated by using a dustcap but with the abloy classic and abloy locks in general being virtually a maintenance free design it is almost a no brainer for this type of application.

We replace keys more often than most would think due to dirt and grime cuasing the sidebar mechanisms to become sticky and resulting in broken keys. The problem is the customer always just turns a bit harder each time and never has the lock serviced until a key is broken.

Primus and medeco locks are great, but they have their limitations. For this appliacation an abloy lock cannot be beat. I personally would recommend the classic due to the simplicity of the mechanism and less moving parts.

[devildog]

Right, well you mention dust and grime being the main culprit and I see from his picture of the location that it's a dirt/gravel road and the gate in question is one restricting access to vehicles, instead of people, so the lock would be subject to a lot of dust and dirt being kicked up by moving vehicles.

[zeke79]

Exactly. I agree with you totally on your choice of abloy classic devildog .

[Lucky1406]

Why not just have a key code lock installed(push button code type), then you dont have to buy so many keys, and just pass the code out to everyone. You could even do monthly changes with the number.

[Schuyler]

Why not just have a key code lock installed(push button code type), then you dont have to buy so many keys, and just pass the code out to everyone. You could even do monthly changes with the number.

Because he's trying to restrict the use of the site to paying members. It's a hassle to get a normal key copied, it's very difficult to get a restricted key copied, but to tell your buddy over the phone this months passcode to the shooting range? Couldn't be easier.

[Shrub]

Sounds like you need a card entry system, a swipe card can be removed from the system as and when the member leaves, you can also log whos on the site at any one time and whos been in and out at any time,

The cost of all the keys you would be saving sounds like the system would be cheaper,

[linty]

squelchtone: there are SFIC padlocks such as the maser 27xx series (or is it 23xx). which is "weatherproof" as a added bonus. you could throw a primus core in those.

I'd have to say a prox chip or swipe card has gotta be the best bet here though. with 1300 people it only takes that one idiot who steals the padlock or throws it in the bushes, or various other acts of dumbassery.

[Squelchtone]

Sounds like you need a card entry system, a swipe card can be removed from the system as and when the member leaves, you can also log whos on the site at any one time and whos been in and out at any time,

The cost of all the keys you would be saving sounds like the system would be cheaper,

unless it takes D cell batteries, there is no power in the middle of the woods =) I like the idea though. I've always like HID prox products.. did you know they're owned by ASSA ABLOY ?

ASSA ABLOY also owns these awesome companies:

Arrow
Chubb
Corbin Russwin
Defiant
Fichet (h key)
Kwikset
Medeco
Mul-t-lock
Sargent
Yale















*just kidding about the kwikset and defiant..


The other thing Shrub, is that in my work with CCTV, I've noticed that many Americans are very nervous about being on camera or having a door mechanism log their in and out times. Especially gun loving Americans who mistrust the government and would not want to be members if we were logging their access. Not that I would tell any of them, but I'm sure some of them use those cards at their everyday jobs, so they know. People here seem to be very afraid of the whole 1984 big brother concept, I know that it's more accepted in the UK as a good way of keeping order and if you don't have anything to hide, you don't have anything to worry about. I must say though that you're probably right about the price of a reader and cards versus copying that many keys.

We have a meeting about this tomorrow, so I'll bring up everything that has been discussed here today. Thanks everyone for pitching in with your ideas.

Squelchtone

[Shrub]

Well it doesnt have to be set up so it logs people in or out but its a great safety feature on somthing like a live gun range, over here i think (but only think as i dont go shoting) that every person goign onto a range has to log in and out for safety by law, if anything goes off they know whos out there, but i am not talking about a target range with set out straight target areas im talking about targets that pop up on a hill side in forests etc and you walk through and shoot at what pops out at you,


Im not sure about the power thing as i dont use such things myself,

[bpc293]

ok here's something that you guys are gona think is dumb. my grandparents had padlocks on there basement , shed and garage. what they would do is cut a piece of leather and nail a flap over the lock. it would cover the whole lock and it worked good. now just add a padlock with a good core.