Masterkeying Kwikset

by **danreller** » 18 Jan 2004 23:57

I'm in the Air Force and will be moving in July. The house I'm living in now and another house I have are both going to become rental properties. Both have Kwikset locks. If I wanted to Masterkey them what would I need? I know I need a Kwikset Pin Kit. What do I need to get the cylinders out to reset a couple of pins in each?

by **danreller** » 18 Jan 2004 23:59

Also, how would I make the first Masterkey? Would I need to file it and then get it duplicated?

by **CitySpider** » 19 Jan 2004 0:07

That's not -- the moderators might eventually split this into two topics, but for now, I'll respond here.

You don't want to masterkey, Dan, if I understand you correctly. Maybe you do, but it seems MUCH easier to just key them identically. That I (and you) could do easily -- just get some Kwikset pins and repin one to match the other.

If you want to actually masterkey them... I don't know, maybe ask Varjeal. I'll never have a need to do that, so I've never learned how. I know how they WORK, but I don't know if there's a Kwikset masterkey kit you can buy, etc.

by **Chucklz** » 19 Jan 2004 0:11

Dan, Im sure if you hunt around bargain stores, you can find "replacement" rim cylinders for about 2 dollars each. Ask around the base for surplus locks etc as they are changed out/upgraded. Convince your buddies to let you put decent locks on their front door, charging them only for the new lock-- you get the old one in return.

About your MK plan, are you sure what you want is a Masterkeyed system. IE, do you want to be able to open both properties with the same key, but allow tennants to have a key that only opens one property? Or are you looking for a keyed alike system? If you buy a bunch of Kwikset locks, you will end up with a whole lot of keys. Lets say you want to MK something, but have two locks that are keyed the same. You can use that "extra" set of keys as your MK.

To get the cylinders out of a Kwickset Deadbolt, you just need a plug follower. The KIK needs a cylinder removal tool, which is about 2 dollars. Frankly Kwicksets arent much of a lock, and offer an illusion of security/safety. You may want to go with a better brand/ install door wraps, reinforced strikes etc.

by **danreller** » 19 Jan 2004 0:15

CitySpider, You're right. I could just key them the same. I'm not sure if a Kwikset pin kit would have the necessary pins for masterkeying or if you just use shorter pins that would shear the same. Actually, thinking about it. It's got to be that. There's only x length that's available and using shorter pins is the only way to masterkey. Keying them the same would work too. My other rental property is in North Carolina so there's virtually no fear of each tenant doing anything to the other. Keying them the same would also sove the problem of filing a new key.

Well, time to go to bed. Thanks for the discourse.

by **CitySpider** » 19 Jan 2004 0:19

Just in case you're awake long enough to see this, it's been a pleasure, Dan. I hope you'll stick around.

by **danreller** » 19 Jan 2004 0:34

Chucklz, thanks for the excellent information. I have so many keys at this point that I bought a 48 key box that just organizes the keys I have and believe me there are more than 48 keys in it. I want to try to minimize keys as much as I can, plus, it would be nice to just have one set of keys for the rentals when I need to repair something. The AF will be moving me to OK so I guess that won't be paramount in the near future. But, since I'm in the "learning about locks mode" it's a thought.

You're right, I could MK them to one of the keys. I've changed the locks at both houses and each time it's taken me about 4 hrs for 4-5 locks. Bear in mind that I didn't know what I was doing and the second house involved changing the diameter of the holes in the door for the lock mechanisms. It seems that the new mechanisms require larger holes, but, that's another story. I didn't know I was getting into all that when I bought the locks.

All these years I've had either Kwikset or Schlage locks and never knew of their vulnerabilities. Since I will be moving I'm reluctant to switch to a more expensive lock. Believe me when I move to OK I will be eyeing a different level lock. I'm not sure of the prevelance of the Kwikset locks, but, I have to guess it is over 50% in some locales. My tenants won't know the difference. Boy, that's a hard statement knowing what I know now. I just hope it doesn't come back to bite me. Many times knowledge can be a bad thing.

Chucklz, thanks again for the info. I'm going to turn in for tonight.

by **Varjeal** » 19 Jan 2004 11:37

Masterkeying your rental properties would (liability wise) be safer than keying them alike, no matter how far away they are.

In order to Masterkey, there are two methods you can use.

1. Is what's called among lockies as the "shoe box" method of masterkeying. You take three sets (in your case) of Kwikset keys. On one property you key the lock so that one set of keys, plus your chosen "master" key will work. Repeat the same for the other lock. This is NOT the perferred method.

2. The best method would be to create three sets of keys. One set will be the "master" the others will be "change" keys. We'll call them CK1 and CK2. You would cut these keys to have all the same depths except in two positions. Let's say we cut your Master key to these depths (numbered from bow to tip) 52363. (And I'm assuming you have a basic understanding of how a pin-tumbler cylinder works and how masterkeying works). We would cut CK1 to be 52365. (Notice the last position is different. We could then cut CK2 to be 52563. (Notice the third position is different.

Now. When you pin the cylinder for CK1 you look at both keys, and pin the plug to the LOWEST depths of both, or in this case, 52363. Next we would add a No. 2 MASTER pin to the last chamber, and this would allow both keys to work, but not CK2.

When you pin the cylinder for CK2 you would pin the cylinder 52363. Then in the third chamber you would add a number 2 masterpin.
Both CK2 and the Master key would would in the lock, but CK1 would not.

Hope that isn't too confusing.

by **danreller** » 19 Jan 2004 12:03

Hi Varjeal,

I'm not sure what the difference is between the Shoebox method and the Master and Change Keys method is. Don't you end up with three sets of keys with the shoebox method too? You have key 1 for lock 1, key 2 for lock 2, and the MK.

What advantage does the CK/MK method give you?

by **Varjeal** » 19 Jan 2004 12:40

Ahhh..forgot to mention about that.

With the "shoebox" method, you may be using vastly different cut keys, requiring multiple masterpins to make the "system" work. This is unadvisable, since with every masterpin you add to the lock you are not only decreasing it's physical security, but also increasing the chances of unwanted keys working the lock!

This, for a professional locksmith, (and should be for everyone) is unacceptable risk and really bad practice.

With the second method, you are controlling the number of shearlines and key cut possibilities, yet still allowing for your master key to work both locks adequately.

Hope that explains it clearly enough.

by **Chucklz** » 19 Jan 2004 12:45

Dan, http://www.kwiklocks.com They have keying kits, cylinder tools, randomly cut keys etc. When selecting a MK bitting it would be a good idea to select one that has at least 1 or 2 positions cut higher than any of the change keys. This keeps people from filing down their key to "amplify" their rights. Getting a few Neuter bow blanks stamped with "Do Not Duplicate" probably couldnt hurt as well, especially for those people who possess a Master key.

You end up with a MK system either method. Just that in the second method, everything is very controlled, and you progress your change keys through logically, and avoid cross keying, phantom masters, and a whole bunch of problems you never suspected you even had. I bet if you approached a locksmith, told him what you wanted to do, and that you wanted to do the work yourself, I bet you could work out an arrangement in where he would cut your keys for you/ provide you with bittings at a reasonable price.

by **CitySpider** » 19 Jan 2004 12:52

Varjeal,

That was a great explanation on a method that hadn't even occurred to me. Thanks; I love learning such things.

by **danreller** » 19 Jan 2004 13:11

It sure does. Thanks.

I also seem to remember reading somwhere that it is more secure to place short pins next to long pins. If the added MK pin renders that pin very short then it should be placed next to or even between two long pins for more security. Is that correct? I'm a three day newbie at this so I might be wrong.

by **Varjeal** » 19 Jan 2004 15:30

Honestly, when it comes to masterkeying, you're only doing it for one reason. Convenience. Don't let anyone fool, masterkeying does nothing but harm security-wise. The fewer possible shearlines, the better. And that goes for ALL systems.

danreller: Not sure where you read that. It sounds plausible, but also hokey, and for all the reasons I mentioned above. The highest security lock is one with tight tolerances and only possible shearline to open the lock.

by **Varjeal** » 19 Jan 2004 15:32

I should mention that Chucklz is right about the control and progressing within a Master key system. The more "levels" you need in a system, the more strict the rules and methods become in order to make it function correctly.

Masterkeying Kwikset

Who is online