Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

Bypass techniquest for the Emergancy services???

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Bypass techniquest for the Emergancy services???

Postby JackNco » 30 Nov 2006 1:46

Theres been alot in the media lately about bumping and the terrors of this knowledge being in the public domain.

And it got me thinking as to how this could in some ways be a good thing. As far as i know so far its not been done or discussed. but the knowledge and equipment to bump a lock and any other bypass techniques that are restricted to the advanced forums could save lives.

Picture an old lady falling down or in some other way disabling her self. she could be dying without medical help but paramedics don't carry any way to open a locked door that im aware of.

I herd about a door that couldn't be broken down by the fire service a few years ago consequently some one died but if the fire fighters had a bump key that person would still be alive today.

Its a simple enough technique. the tools cost nearly nothing and it could be a silver lining to all the bad press going round at the moment.

Anyone got any thoughts on this?

John
JackNco
 
Posts: 3149
Joined: 14 Apr 2006 12:26
Location: Coventry. UK

Postby melvin2001 » 30 Nov 2006 1:51

i dont see anything wrong with equipping emergency personel with bypass techniques.... although i think the thermite-pick (or some other destructive entry method) would almost be preferred... generally DE is faster then NDE...
melvin2001
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 595
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 17:42
Location: NC, USA

Postby JackNco » 30 Nov 2006 2:00

Thermite-pick? is this an actual product or just the idea of burning a lock out?

i woudl have thought termite would just messup the gubbins of the lock and leave u no real way to open it?

And there are some cases where its not possible i mentioned the case where the fire service could not get in. this was a door with a latch that went most of the way down the door. it was stronger than the rest of the door.

If u practice bumping there arnt many faster ways in.

John
JackNco
 
Posts: 3149
Joined: 14 Apr 2006 12:26
Location: Coventry. UK

Postby melvin2001 » 30 Nov 2006 2:19

right. i already agreed with you. i think they should be taught bypass... but i also think they should be taught to smash down a door if it stands the chance of being in the way of a human life. i didn't mean to say they should ONLY blow up a door... i merely ment they should be trained to do so as well...

NDE first DE if all else fails...
melvin2001
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 595
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 17:42
Location: NC, USA

Postby JackNco » 30 Nov 2006 2:33

lol ya i was agreeing with u. if it comes down 2 it take a wall out if needs be. i was just asking if a thermite pick is something thats made? as in a pack that u insert and light. might be something thats fun to try :)
JackNco
 
Posts: 3149
Joined: 14 Apr 2006 12:26
Location: Coventry. UK

Postby Iceberg_Slim » 30 Nov 2006 2:52

im a fire fighter i have been trained to use a couple things for emergency entry but they are all destructive methods

k-12 saw

good old set of irons ( axe + halligan bar)

duck bill lock breaker - a metal wedge that is forced between the shackle on padlocks and is forced farther into the shackle by the back of an axe head, and the force spreads the shackles apart and breaks it

rabbit tool , like a mini hydraulic spreader for a door jam, forces jam away from door.
Iceberg_Slim
 
Posts: 225
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 1:31
Location: princeton, new jersey area

Postby JackNco » 30 Nov 2006 2:58

Ever had any problems getting in?

Whats ur take on Teaching bumping to you guys and paramedics?

John
JackNco
 
Posts: 3149
Joined: 14 Apr 2006 12:26
Location: Coventry. UK

Postby Iceberg_Slim » 30 Nov 2006 3:12

where i live is not a large city and we dont have many business, but alot of homes, suburbs basically. for homes there is really no problem getting in, its all normal cheapo deadbolts and such and its actually sometimes easy to just kick a door in or use the head of an axe.

also there is 1 more tool i forgot about, i think its called a k-tool, its for business store fronts, basically its a large metal plate that sits over a plug or the keybody and u have to hit the top of the plate with a axe head and it breaks off the face of the lock. i havent used 1 in a long time since my early days in training. we dont have much businees around.

as for teaching others bumping in the emergency services field, i dont think the local goveerment who watches over out activites would like this. we already have more then enough tools and methods to enter a building and this bump method would give some people the wrong idea and they would more then likey use it maliciously.


this is the truth though, its not about saving the door or the door lock, its about saving lives , so the door is gonna get kicked, cut or broken down .
Iceberg_Slim
 
Posts: 225
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 1:31
Location: princeton, new jersey area

Postby JackNco » 30 Nov 2006 3:18

K-tool that sounds interesting.... ide ask for a picture but i assume its something restricted to the advanced forums if its not avalible to buy

John
JackNco
 
Posts: 3149
Joined: 14 Apr 2006 12:26
Location: Coventry. UK

Postby melvin2001 » 30 Nov 2006 3:28

bypass is advanced forum material... although i dont think anyone will mind as long as it is kept in the context of wether it is ethical or reasonable for emergency personel, and stays away from specifics on how they are operated or what exactly they exploit. like i dont think anyone would mind saying "it spreads apart the shackle till it breaks" because thats pretty vague.

at any rate although bumping could be a valuable tool in some rare cases i think the majority of emergency situations could be delt with otherwise... the main ones i can think of would be lets say.... a person who poses no danger that is locked inside a building or something similar... like a child locked in a closet with the keys or something strange like that...

the main issue here though is that situations like that are so bizarre and uncommon, and generally not life threatening, they would most likely just call in a locksmith or just a police officer trained to use a snap gun.
melvin2001
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 595
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 17:42
Location: NC, USA

Postby Iceberg_Slim » 30 Nov 2006 3:29

Iceberg_Slim
 
Posts: 225
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 1:31
Location: princeton, new jersey area

Postby JackNco » 30 Nov 2006 3:33

Absolutely im not interested in the techniques just if people think it might be helpful.

No doubt the people in charge of these things will not know enough about it to think if it would or would not be a good idea.

as for situations i think there may be alot of times where paramedics need in but cant get in.
JackNco
 
Posts: 3149
Joined: 14 Apr 2006 12:26
Location: Coventry. UK

Postby Iceberg_Slim » 30 Nov 2006 3:37

he4res a really good explanation and sorry if this is advanced stuff which i dont thin it is at all becuase its not bypass, its destructive method.



http://www.wfrfire.com/website/rescue/hand/ktool2.htm
Iceberg_Slim
 
Posts: 225
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 1:31
Location: princeton, new jersey area

Postby JackNco » 30 Nov 2006 3:38



LOL wow its like a glorified bottle opener!

Very cool and deffinatly DE

John
JackNco
 
Posts: 3149
Joined: 14 Apr 2006 12:26
Location: Coventry. UK

Postby melvin2001 » 30 Nov 2006 3:41

haha yeah destructive entry is in fact advanced forum stuff (to my knowledge) and generally frowned upon...

best bet is to get back on topic IMHO
melvin2001
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 595
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 17:42
Location: NC, USA

Next

Return to Got Questions? - Ask Beginner Hobby Lockpicking Questions Here

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests