Best way to "cross reference" blanks?

by **77luke** » 15 Dec 2006 6:49

I just started at a locksmith and have been having some trouble figuring out what keys that a customer brings in will work with the blanks that we have- provided we don't have one identical to theirs. I know the common ones- but it takes me forever if it is something other than an sc1 or the like. When you guys first started, was there something that you did that made this easier? Thanks for all the help.

by **melvin2001** » 15 Dec 2006 7:53

thats actually a really good question as i have been wondering the same thing... i have seen several "identify this keyway" threads the last couple weeks and best i can come up with is grab the ILCO pdf's and start lookin. takes frickin forever.

by **Isakill** » 15 Dec 2006 9:22

I'm with melvin. There's no way you could possibly remember every warding on every keyblank that crosses your eyes, the cross-reference from ILCO is the best way I can recommend.
The reason I do so is because I bought a key cutter and a bunch of blanks off of my great uncle and all of the blanks were not labeled. That cross reference guide has helped me ID almost all of them. along with the blank directory.

Unless some of the older/wiser locksmiths have a better idea, of which I will take their notes down :wink:

by **Shrub** » 15 Dec 2006 10:03

You do get very good at reconiseing all the common keyways and what blanks fit them but of course theres the ones youve not seen before or rarely see,

There lots of great software out there and the key manufactures also tend to make cross referance books,

Ive got a few books that i can browse but mostly i use software, this allows you to either type in the use or model of lock, key code etc and get lists as well as the depth and spacing charts etc,

by **linty** » 15 Dec 2006 18:27

there's really no easy answer here, if i was you though ever time i saw a key i couldn't cut i'd take a picture and post it here so you'd know next time :)

by **raimundo** » 16 Dec 2006 12:18

the locksmith just knows from long experience, but for those blanks that you have to look closer at, most people will compare by putting them side by side and having a look down the tips, but if you look at the other end of the blank, near the bow, you will see where the mill wheels that cut the warding into the key come out of the brass, and here, the shape of that mill wheel is revealed by the shape of the ends of the grooves. if you are looking for a compatable key this is a good area to look at to compare, of course, it takes practice too, but the bow ends of the grooves show the elongated profile of the mill wheel that cut the groove, and its a bit like some long shadow late in the day, exaggerated to the shape you would be looking at by comparing tip to tip. when you learn to look at the bow, you can compare blanks quickly.

by **ponsaloti** » 16 Dec 2006 12:46

cuttlefish

by **maxxed** » 17 Dec 2006 2:01

Practice and experience are definitly the key here. (ha ha )
The shape of the head of the key can often help identify the manufacture, Schlage, Kwickset, Titan, and Dexter have a distinctive shape. Your area will have a series of keys that are the most common, 80% or more of my commercial/ residential keying is based on 7 keyways.
The shop that I started in had cut apart the keyblank cataloge and had the tags hanging behind the keys on the hooks. The keyway profile is then clearly visible when scanning the board for matches to the key or lock.

by **WOT** » 17 Dec 2006 5:18

maxxed wrote:Practice and experience are definitly the key here. (ha ha )
The shape of the head of the key can often help identify the manufacture, Schlage, Kwickset, Titan, and Dexter have a distinctive shape. Your area will have a series of keys that are the most common, 80% or more of my commercial/ residential keying is based on 7 keyways.
The shop that I started in had cut apart the keyblank cataloge and had the tags hanging behind the keys on the hooks. The keyway profile is then clearly visible when scanning the board for matches to the key or lock.

Well, I think KW1, SC1, mailboxes and cars pretty much dominates the "popular key cut" sector. Home Depot, Wal-Mart and such has an idiot proof machine called the "Axxess Plus" and it has a multi-faced keyway block that you match the bow, then start trying the key out from left to right and use the blank corresponding to the hole that original key fits into first.

Perhaps you could buy one of these try out blocks somewhere?

Of course, it isn't in a locksmith shop's interest to only have blanks to cut keys that can be cut on the Axxess Plus machine. Locksmith is where they go when they find out Home Depot don't have the blank for their key.

Commercial keys are usually way more complicated. They often have Best and Schlage IC, Medeco, tubular, etc.

A rather common Best SFIC key system have over 20 keyways under the same key design and the Schlage classic is much the same way. If the original key is stamped with the keyway designation, it is cake, but often time, the blanks are made without the marking to add a touch of security and many keyways are very similar to eachother it's so hard to tell them apart.

Can you tell J,K,L,M or F, H or D,E,G apart without looking at the lettering?

by **linty** » 17 Dec 2006 9:14

WOT wrote:Well, I think KW1, SC1, mailboxes and cars pretty much dominates the "popular key cut" sector. Home Depot, Wal-Mart and such has an idiot proof machine called the "Axxess Plus" and it has a multi-faced keyway block that you match the bow, then start trying the key out from left to right and use the blank corresponding to the hole that original key fits into first.

and yet those guys still manage to cut keys on the wrong blanks or just plain cut keys wrong constantly. for example they often cut 6 pin keys on to 5 pin blanks, i get customers in who've gone everywhere in town trying to get their 6 pin kwikset copied before they come to us.

by **arris** » 17 Dec 2006 11:28

at out work it either look in the book,

or we have a triax e-code hooked up to the pc, so that can do it for ya

by **ponsaloti** » 17 Dec 2006 17:36

If its a key i dont recognise, but it has numbers or letters on it, i use JMA software or book. if no number or letters, do as raimundo has explained. I find pushing the cut key into cuttlefish right up to shoulder and removing then doing the same with blank so that impressions are next to each other is sometimes easier than looking down the profile, when im tired i can sometimes get key blind, using this technique you can also see if the blank falls into the hole left by the cut key. FF ok FE nok

by **2octops** » 17 Dec 2006 18:56

Check out Blackhawks KBW software. It will do exactly what you are looking for.

http://www.blackhawk7.com/kbx.htm

by **Belfast_ken** » 17 Dec 2006 20:34

You could also try this link to JMA>> http://www.jma.es/ingles/buscador.asp?i ... s#busqueda

by **77luke** » 18 Dec 2006 5:09

Thanks for the advice guys- I haven't heard the term cuttlefish- what is that?

Best way to "cross reference" blanks?

Best way to "cross reference" blanks?

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