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invincible make up key

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

invincible make up key

Postby blindpin » 21 Dec 2006 14:46

my friend has just aquired a s/h invincible make up key(sv) but we aint sure about chart , 1st colum 1to 8 levers , 2nd colum hieght lift in mm, 3rd colum says unlock allso in mm not quite sure about this last colum i allso asume an impresion is taken from the back of the levers ?..thanks in advance
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Postby Anero » 21 Dec 2006 14:57

anymore detail on this, maybe pictures or links, your post was a little confusing but could just be me.
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Postby Bump » 22 Dec 2006 12:44

Column 1: Lever number.

Column 2: Lift height - the height the lever needs to be lifted to align gate and stump. Ignore for the moment although this information is useful when you come to mix up the pins (you will) as they usually correspond to the length of the pin.

Column 3: The measurement of the impression gained from the lever bellies after taking an impression with a "P" key in the "LOCK" direction.

Cover the "P" key with plastercine (not play do) sufficiently to take the impression, but without smudging it on the lock body, and measure up from the intersection of the key stem and blade using a micrometer. Compare the measurement with the chart to determine which lever it is.

The Invinvible levers are arranged ABACD, ie Levers 1 to 5 from the bolt are arranged so that lever 1 is always the same as lever 3 (eg:53524) Once you have calculated all 5 levers, configure the pins and make-up key.

Notice there is room for 7 pins, depending on which side of the lock you are operating from place any of the longer pins to fill the spaces and act as curtain turners. I prefer to mirror the active pins ie a 53524 configuration would be pins 4253524, this is so I can use the key from both sides or cut a duplicate if needed.

This type of decoder relies on accurate measurement and the careful alignment of the pins in the make-up key. Sometimes, even with the corect combination, its necessary to jiggle the make-up key to get the lock to open.

If you dont have "P" keys, SV will supply them.

A simple chart for keeping track of your measurements:

5 4 3 2 1
A B A C D

5 3 5 2 4
4 4 1 3

Sometimes you might feel that the measurement could be one of two possible levers, write them both down so you can swap the pins out to the next possible pin.

As you havent submitted your location I am assuming you have some knowledge of mortice lever locks and this explanation is filling in the blanks.
Image
Bump
 
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Postby Bump » 22 Dec 2006 12:52

Bump wrote:The Invinvible levers are arranged ABACD, ie Levers 1 to 5 from the bolt are arranged so that lever 1 is always the same as lever 3 (eg:53524) Once you have calculated all 5 levers, configure the pins and make-up key.



I really meant to say levers 5 to 1 from the bolt......... levers 5 and 3 are always the same. Reverse the chart if operating from the RH side of the door.

Think that about covers it.
Image
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Postby blindpin » 22 Dec 2006 21:55

thanks bump. im a bit more in the picture now. may even try make my own makeup key (precise drilling no doubt)
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Postby Bump » 23 Dec 2006 5:44

I assumed you had a full second hand SV kit. Do you have all the pins and key reader? The key reader is the make up key and is used to read individual levers in the lock using special reading pins. Once the code has been obtained the same tool is used as a variable key to open the lock.

With the Invincible its not necessary to take impressions but it does narrow the options down.

Image
Image
Bump
 
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Postby Bump » 23 Dec 2006 5:58

By the way! If you have a chart that says levers 1-8 I dont think you have the Invincible as there should only be 7 lever heights I think. This decoder had a very different manner of use than the most of the other ERA decoders. How about a picture of your tool?
Image
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Postby Bump » 23 Dec 2006 6:02

Da*n why cant we edit posts? Ive just been and dug my decoder out and there are 8 levers in the Invincible......so confusing ERA's.
Image
Bump
 
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Postby blindpin » 23 Dec 2006 10:07

bump. the one ive been playing about with has got 2 milled out blanks for plastercene (left&right) the actual makeup key & pins 1 to 8, oh and a small tub of plaserscene. it isnt the same as yours i beleive this is there earlier model 1996 ish...
blindpin
 
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Postby Bump » 23 Dec 2006 11:48

Never seen the older model so cant help you on that one.
Image
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Postby Tyler Durden » 24 Dec 2006 6:21

Are you sure its fotr the Invincable and not the Pro Fit
" Utrinque Paratus!"
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Postby lockey1963 » 24 Dec 2006 7:55

safe ventures did do a plastercine kit for the invincible, but proved unreliable, so the new kit was made.
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Postby Tyler Durden » 24 Dec 2006 11:50

Ah. I never knew they made a plastacine kit for it. I tried to meke one myself but I found the readings wern't very good on the low levers especially a number eight?

What was the problem with the sv kit?
" Utrinque Paratus!"
Tyler Durden
 
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Postby lockey1963 » 24 Dec 2006 12:44

unreliable readings
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Postby Al » 24 Dec 2006 19:34

lockey1963 wrote:safe ventures did do a plastercine kit for the invincible, but proved unreliable, so the new kit was made.


Era changed the levers because so many plasticine kits were sold.
Era have now designed the Fortress to make life difficult for curtain pickers.
This is what happens when you mass market tools.
Alan Morgan Master Locksmiths.
Experts in Locks and Safes.
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