funny looking master keys

by **jgencinc** » 23 Dec 2006 0:44

I am working on an apartment complex. They have a master key system in place. these are the keys

They look like they would be ridiculously easy to pick. Is this a normal set of master keys, or is the lockie a not a good one?

by **What** » 23 Dec 2006 1:02

looks like a bad lockie job to me.

i would never want a lock keyed that shallow....

by **zeke79** » 23 Dec 2006 1:08

How are low cut masters a bad job? If they were high (deep) cut masters then operating keys would be easy to make from existing operating keys. Low cut masters make masterkeys safe from people recutting their operating keys into master keys.

by **jgencinc** » 23 Dec 2006 1:10

that's a good point. I am not a locksmith, so I had no clue either way. They just look wierd to me.

by **Raccoon** » 23 Dec 2006 1:17

The lockie is just a dork that either didn't know what he was doing (eg, has some real misconceptions about master keying) or he was being lazy and saving time.

5 bucks says it's an arbitrary key mastered. Just stick pins in de holes until both change key and master key works. He probably has some concern about cross-keying, that is, other tennants keys accidentally open random locks, so he used fairly uncommon depths, or at least depths that were uncommon to the system. So the system had very few (if any) 0's and 1's, so he though it would be safe to use those.

by **jgencinc** » 23 Dec 2006 1:18

the apartment complex has 188 units.

by **Raccoon** » 23 Dec 2006 1:19

Actually, odds are greater that the landlord said, "I have these locks, they need a master key. I don't want to have to pay for a whole bunch of keys to be cut for every tenant, so make their existing key work."

Are you working on these locks by chance?

by **supersteph** » 23 Dec 2006 1:20

i have a semi-related question - is it easier to set a pin with a low sheer line? i'm guessing yes and that that is the concern behind these oddly cut keys, but it's just a guess.

by **Raccoon** » 23 Dec 2006 1:23

Actually, the deeper the cuts, generally the more difficult it is to pick. I'm always getting snagged on low (low hanging, deep cut #, like 9s) because I'll over set them by simply inserting my pick as low as possible.

by **jgencinc** » 23 Dec 2006 1:23

No, i'm not a lockie. I'm a project manager for a company that is contracting with verizon to install MDUs (Multi dwelling units) with the pathway for their new fiber system.

We need to get into each apartment to install the conduit. That's why I have the keys.

by **Raccoon** » 23 Dec 2006 1:47

ah.

well, word of advice then, i'd take images of those keys off the web.

by **zeke79** » 23 Dec 2006 2:05

Honestly, all I can say on the open forums is that I would make them have the system redone by a locksmith who knows what he is doing.

by **maxxed** » 23 Dec 2006 2:20

The top two keys look like the top shoulder has been cut / filed back and are multi generation cuts ( copies of copies copies ect.) the tip of the center key looks like it has been cut off.
I generally have master keys with one of the highest and one of the lowest cuts on the, but I see nothing wrong with the patterns used
When it comes to picking. master keyed locks have multiple shear lines per cylinder and that also makes it much easier to pick. Also a flat key pattern may exsist in the form of a ghost key in the lock.

by **xequar** » 23 Dec 2006 2:27

My limited experience in setting up master key systems combined with the reading that I've done suggests that it's a good idea to have a couple of high cuts (to prevent Change key holders from making their own Masters), a deep cut or two, and some varied mid-range cuts for the rest, apparently to help thwart at least an unskilled picker and bla bla bla. IMO, the setup shown should be addressed in some manner.

Also, I don't know that having that pic of the keys really makes any difference to anything, since the location of the complex is not listed anywhere, and the system uses readily available generic locks, so I can't envision anyone ever being able to use those pics for malicious purposes.

by **Raccoon** » 23 Dec 2006 3:23

It's worth pointing out that having a flat master key (little veriation) makes it so that EVERY LOCK (not just some) have a flat pattern. This allows just about anyone to stick a paperclip into the lock to open. Especially with the first key, just lift all the pins all the way up (jiggle a little) and turn.

Regarding the anonimity of those keys; we tend to get chatty about or personal and professional lives. It wouldn't surprise me if jgencinc shared more information about the apartment complex over the next few months, that someone might be able to identify. I know that many members here could drive right to my door if they really wanted to. They also know that I don't lock my doors. eek.

funny looking master keys

funny looking master keys

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