Double-Bit Key Cylinders

[nefelodamon]

Hello all!!!

After a little of practice I'm able to unlock some basic no security locks. All my friends that have seen me to perform the art of lockpicking are asking me questions about the security of locks.
I have seen to videos and books that most pin tumbler locks (even security ones like "medeco side bar") can be unlocked easy with the right skils and tools. But I've never seen any info about Double-Bit Key Cylinders like this one http://www.cisa.com/flex/files/D.441635 ... inders.pdf

I have one like this installed in my front door and I'm really curious if this type of locks is pickable and how.

If this question is advanced or public security is involved and must not get answered in public I just want to know only if is pickable or not and no how.
Thanks a lot!

[UWSDWF]

yeah its pickable.. difficut though

[nefelodamon]

I'm fine with the answer but if anyone else can give me aditional information it is always welcome!!!

BTW tanks UWSDWF!

[raimundo]

looking at the key, I count places for 4 levers, then a deep ward, then the blade that drives the bolt, and behind that another ward and the same four lever tumbler cuts. The lockpick you need may be one of the 2in1 or 3in one types that our british and french members use.

[nefelodamon]

You mean a pick like this one described here in the "European Locks, Picks and Hardware" section viewtopic.php?t=15319 .

As you already guessed I live in Europe, Greece and those are VERY common safety locks used in, maybe, 70 to 80% of appartments doors.
It is very disapointing to realise that they can be opened with so little efford.

Thanks again raimundo and UWSDWF for your answers and happy new year to all!!!

[Shrub]

Those locks work in a specific way and as far as i know are not a double bitted lever lock but i could of course have looked at the wrong picture,

As far as im aware they are an additional lock that fits the keyway of the original lock as the original lock was so easy to pick in the first place with special tooling,

The lock in that pic was designed to attach to the outside of the door over the lock so now instead of inserting the key and unlock the door you have to insert it to this extra part and turn the key in there before it can then be pushed into the keyhole in the main lock and then turned to open the door,

Now of course i could be wrong about this as i only quickly clicked the link and had a quick look as im only here a min or so but it is is as i suspect then the out lock can be decoded with realative ease and then the inner lock decoded as well but of course both locks are supceptable to picking if you have the toling and know how,

I have to say that im supprised you didnt mention the additional lock thing if its your lock which tells me im either wrong or this isnt your lock as you dont know how it works,

That said if they are in abundace over there can you price me a couple up please as i would quite like a couple to play with,

As i say im sorry for any inaccucies but im really only flying through,

[nefelodamon]

I sorry about the confusion but I will try to clear the things out.
I have not found any picture of my door lock and the picture I wanted you people to look was this one and think of it as a full functioning lock INSIDE the door:


Also my lock has not the security pins that we see in the keys (holes on the side of the key) in the picture above.

@Shrub
You were absolutely correct with your post. It was my mistake not explaining right to you what exactly I want to ask.

Thanks again all!!!

[greyman]

As far as I can tell that is not an ordinary Italian lever lock. It looks like a new model CISA lever + pin tumbler cylinder/lever lock. I don't have one but I would guess that the key is inserted in the cylinder and the pin tumbler bittings have to match up OK to turn it enough so it can then be inserted into the keyway for the Italian lever lock. From the picture I can't see it working with both lever and pin simultaneously since the pin bittings are at the same depth as the lever bittings. If my hunch is correct, you have little chance of picking this lock. It's already a difficult job picking the usual Italian lever lock since there are levers on either side of the bolt. Good luck with it.

[Shrub]

My understanding was that the lock above is the pin tumbler one which uses the cuts on the side of the key then once turned in that lock the key can be pushed through and operate the lever lock behind and the first lock key retaining, if the key has the incorrect biting for the pin tumbler part the key wont even be alowed into the keyway of the lever lock,

Both locks are pickable but in very differant ways,