Help with my ilco Unican 025 key machine

[WOT]

I just bought a second hand ilco Unican 025 key machine, which is the predecessor to the 045.

They both have four way vise jaws, but they are different. The 045 is equipped with narrow,standard,wide and x positions. The 025 is equipped with standard, wide, W and A.

I mainly work with Best and some Schlage keys and cuts are turning out sloped and I have to manually file off the high side. Why is it doing this?

The machine also leaves some burr on the bottom side and not all of it comes off with the deburring brush. Is my cutting wheel done?

thanks in advance.

[zeke79]

I just bought a second hand ilco Unican 025 key machine, which is the predecessor to the 045.

They both have four way vise jaws, but they are different. The 045 is equipped with narrow,standard,wide and x positions. The 025 is equipped with standard, wide, W and A.

I mainly work with Best and some Schlage keys and cuts are turning out sloped and I have to manually file off the high side. Why is it doing this?

The machine also leaves some burr on the bottom side and not all of it comes off with the deburring brush. Is my cutting wheel done?

thanks in advance.

Ok, I'll help where I can.

The burring that is not coming off with the brush is due to a dull cutter. Save a few bucks and send it in to Gil Ray for resharpening and save a few bucks over new.

Next problem is that all duplicators will to some degree "angle" the cuts if they are are not feeding directly into the machine. This is due to the design of most machines. IF you can use a deeper vice to get the blade of the key flatter in relation to the cutter it will help. You do not want to cut into the vice though. Some machines have a stop to prevent this. Some do not.

My Ilco 040 does a great job of cutting straight. My ilco 008 is horribly angled. It depends on the model used and there is really nothing that can be done to fix it on most machines. If you are cutting best keys alot then I would recommend using a dedicated punch or finding a used code machine.

[maxxed]

I agree with Zeke, sharpen or get a new cutting wheel, and you should also check to see if the cutter is sliding in and out ( left and right ) this will cause the cuts on the left ramp to have a hook but the right side will be normal. So then the key will not go into the lock or will go in with difficulty if tthis is the case

[WOT]

To illustrate, this is what happens. The bottom mills out deeper than top.





A penny is flat and does not tilt around like a weird shaped blank, so it's not just blank tilting causing angled cut. Zeke79, do you know anything about the 025? Is it a decent machine?

[WOT]

The blade is a gold looking titanium nitride coated PX23MC high speed steel cutter.

If I have it sharpened, would it last anywhere near as long as a new blade before it needs resharpening? I am guessing the benefit of TiN is gone after the first sharpening.

[zeke79]

Can you try using a thin bit of paperclip in the warding of the keys to change angle a bit? I do not know about the benifits of anything in cutters as i only buy hss. I have heard some say that carbide just does not cut as well though. I cannot comment on this as I have never had the extra $$$ to splurge on a carbide cutter.

Your duplicator does not seem to be doing all that bad. The problem is that best keys seem to want to be "spot on" to really work well.

Maybe someone like keysman or the likes can chime in with more advice. I know keysman has cut many keys in his day and will likely offer some valuable input to the matter.

[keysman]

I can't picture a Ilco 025 , I really don't know Ilco machines that well, so the info here is generic and may not be specific for your machine.

HSS ( high speed steel) cutters are good for at least 3000 brass or nickel silver keys .. ALWAYS use the recommended cutter.. not just one that fits.. the motor speed and the pulley size determine the speed at which the blade turns , and the blade is designed to cut properly at that speed ( do a google search for speeds and feeds for more info) . using the incorrect blade can cause premature wear on the cutter, machine and make adjusting a real night mare. Additionally the incorrect wheel will cause the blade to heat up and QUICKY change the diameter of the blade .. more night mares .. make 10 duplicates of a working keys the first one works perfectly.. must be adjusted correctly .. the 2nd and 3rd work but ‘click” a little, the rest won’t work at all…..hmmm ….time to “shelf “ that machine or sell it to some “unsuspecting “ person..
If you don’t have the part # for the machine you have , contact David Duel at Gilray .. he forgot more about cutting wheels then most of us will ever know.

Although TiN wheels are very pretty… who wouldn’t be proud of a ‘Gold” wheel on their machine.. I don’t think they can be resharpened to original specs, unlike HSS or carbide wheels……. I don’t think I have ever owned one so I can’t really speak for or against,, but at 2x the price of a HSS cutter it must have some redeaming qualitys.

I like a sharp blade.. I don’t like to use a wire wheel.. just a personal preference .. a properly adjusted machine with a good clean cutter shouldn’t need to be ‘ buffed “except for the sharp edges.


When cutting a Best , Falcon or other SFIC key, It is recommended that you use a punch….SFIC locks are NOT very forgiving and most ‘wheeled” cutters are simply not that accurate.. a punch is far more accurate and tends to stay accurate longer.

I like to cut schlage on a punch too .. that is just me .. I like my keys to work 1st time. A punch pretty much guarantees the accuracy of the keys.




I

[hurri]

Nice sig WOT.What does it mean?

[jimmysmith]

How do i know what size Cutting wheel to get for my ilco machine, does it directly relate to the rpm speed on my motor?..

I think i am in need of a new cutting wheel. any local hardware store's supply cutting wheels that will do the trick?

On my ilco key dub machine, there are hardly any marking. on the little key vices its says,,,,ilco. then on the bottom of the machine it says. 301431. does any one know what this means, how can i find out more information about my machine?

[Shrub]

The important thing is the bore of the cutter, get that right and your halfway there,

If its a computor code cutter you need the same wheel, if its a manual code cutter you can use a slightly differant O/D wheel but the machine will need to be reset, if its a duplicator a wheel within 10mm dia of the other one will be fine make sure you rest the stops,

The bore however is the critical thing and must be the same as the original,

Rough ruler measurements wil show the right wheel in the catalogue as they arent all that close together so one wheel for one machine will be quite differant to the same looking wheel from a differant machine, if they are simular chances are they are more or less the same one with dfferant part numbers maybe,

Measure your bore and shaft and then look through the cat, find the right bore and then look for the diameter,

[UWSDWF]

To illustrate, this is what happens. The bottom mills out deeper than top.





A penny is flat and does not tilt around like a weird shaped blank, so it's not just blank tilting causing angled cut. Zeke79, do you know anything about the 025? Is it a decent machine?

I think the important thing to know is that defacing currency is against the law

[Shrub]

And that cutting anything other than keys in the machine is bound to mess up the machine in some way,

[zeke79]

jimmysmith,

The correct cutter is needed in a duplicator too. If you go with a different size cutter it will change the feed angle of the keys and give you a key that is sloped in one direction or the other similar to the penny posted in this thread only more severe.

You can however use a wheel with the same sized arbor and outside diameter of any brand.

[Shrub]

Sorry Zeke is right on the OD, my machine can be altered to counter for that so i didnt think for those that dont,

[jimmysmith]

do you have a pic of your ilco 025 machine? I have a old ilco key dub machine and i am trying to find out more about it. It sounds like i might mave a 025 machine but not sure, I will try to post pics of mine soon.