my first lock. can't understand what i'm doing wrong...

[AnarchistAZZA]

i'm trying to pick my first lock. i know what to do and everything and i'm doing it. but the lock isn't reacting how it should though it's probably me doing something wrong.

its a 5pin tumbler lock. i put tension on it, then either try to pick the pins one at a time or i just rake them. now ususally, the 1st and 4th pin set ( ican't tell about the 5th though im fairly sure it isn't set) and then no more pins set apart from the 2nd occasionally. i've done this process countless times, with all the different picks i have and i just can't get it to open! i can't tell whether it's because the pins are false set (how do you tell whether they have or not?) or something else.
the closest ive got is having just one pin (3rd) remaining unset. this one seems totally unaffected by anything i do- tension, picks, etc... . it just merrily pops back up everytime i try! .
WHAT IS WRONG?!!!
any help?

[Anarchist Matt]

Get your good friend here to help you No-oB

[Anarchist Matt]

Hey

You can tell if the Pins are falsely set because they have a tiny little more bounce in than a normal set pin also the lock might start to turn the other way.

[AnarchistAZZA]

when i haven't even picked my first lock, its kinda hard to judge 'springiness'. nothing to compare to...
if one pin false sets, does it stop the rest of them from setting?

[CitySpider]

Azza,

First of all, yes, usually if one pin false sets, it will stop the rest from setting.

Second, I hate to disagree with Matt, but I can't imagine why there'd be any springiness in a false set pin. It's false set. It doesn't want to move at all. I also don't see why the plug would start resisting tension more (ie: turning the wrong way), unless you're dealing with trick pins, and even then it's very miniscule.

I think lots of new folks think they know exactly what's going on inside the lock (pins 1, 2, and 3 are set, but I false set pin 4, so I can't set pin 5). I'd be willing to bet that the problem isn't that you're misreacting to the perceived problem, it's that you're perceiving the wrong problem.

I'm also willing to bet that you're using too much tension. That'd cause the problems you're talking about.

And lastly, please cut back the profanity. We're trying to appear respectable -- lockpickers already have a reputation as a bunch of hoodlums. No reason to give people any more reasons to believe that.

Spider

[Chucklz]

A nice way to reduce tension is to cut it by 50% at a time, until the lock opens. But, as you are a beginner, I would suggest trying to obtain a lock that you can dissassemble, then work up from one pin stack all the way to 5. Try doing it ever so slowly, Ie, pick it 50 times with one pin, a hundred times with two, a hundred-fifty with three etc. I know it seems like an awful lot of work, but its a good way to learn.

About the lock you are presently attempting to open, what brand etc? You may have inadvertantly picked up a difficult lock to begin with. Good luck and keep us informed.

[plot]

it's all about the tension, i'm guessing you're using way to much... i know when i have a problem, that's usually it.


outside of that, try a different lock... some are simply very hard to pick. some are very easy, maybe you got one of the hard ones?

[Anarchist Matt]

Second, I hate to disagree with Matt, but .

WELL.......................

Ehh im new so fairplay

I thought that the Pins were trickpins like on Yales

My mistake sorry

[AnarchistAZZA]

the lock says 'Henderson' on it and it is completely made of brass except for the bolt itself.
i think im making progress cos today i got all the pins to correctly set except for the 3rd one again.
sorry about the 'profanity' but it is very irritating
and matt, you haven't even got any picks yet so stop giving me dodgy advice.

thanks alot everyone, i'll keep trying.

[Chucklz]

Tenacity is definately the way to go here. Eventually the lock will yield to your manipulation.

I know that buying another lock is a pain sometimes, but truly, a Kwikset deadbolt (If available in your corner of the globe) or a Master #3 or #1, or #5 padlock would be a good lock to start with, as they are generally not hard to open. Look for one whose key bitting stays away from "high low high" configurations. If you you got all but one final pin to correctly set, than just playing with that pin would easily open the lock. I submit that you have at least one false set pin in there somewhere. Again, reduce your tension even more. Good luck!

[plot]

i bought a cheap no brand lock from walmart... i'm not sure it really has to be picked, it just sorta opens when i turn the tension wrench and stick in the pick... but anyways, i use this whenever i get frusterated. i open it a few times, then go back to whatever lock i was working on before. i suggest you find some no-brand lock that is easy to pick as well... might make things easier.

[Quin]

I agree with the others.

Until you understand how pins work picking anything with any kind of security feature will cause problems for you.

When I started I got a cheapy lock from a pound shop (Ross), a mid range lock (era) and also bought a Yale (2 mushroom pins).

I worked with the era and the ross for a week or so to understand how the pins worked. Once I could open both of them with ease I moved onto the Yale which has 2 mushrooms pins to foil picking. Because I had been practising on the 2 cheap ones it was easy to figure out which pins were the security pins and after a few more hours I worked out what happened when the security pins false set.

Now I can open Yales quite quickly but I think if I started on a lock with security features I wouldnt have understood the principles behind it.

[AnarchistAZZA]

Look for one whose key bitting stays away from "high low high" configurations.

the key for the lock im trying to pick has a high low bitting.
first pin high
second pin low
third pin high
etc...

will this make it hard to pick? will a lock with a more flattish key be easier to pick then?

[Chucklz]

Yes, this will be more difficult to pick. And, yes a key with "flatter" bitting should be easier to pick.

I do beleive the lad is beginning to get it!

[kostassk8]

yeah its isier