dealing with SFICs with stack a height violation

[WOT]

SFIC A2 format calls for total stack height of "23" units or 397/1000"

I've come across some where stack heights are 22 or 24. If the ctrl is to be derivated, what calculation method yields the smoothest operating ctrl bitting?

[raimundo]

I had no idea you were a best specialist. I keep trying to figure out a tool that would open the control after the function has been picked and the plug turned 180 degrees, some kind of comb pick might work I think put up into the top cylinder from the bottom opening of the keyway once the plug is turned to present the top.

[rakemaster]

I believe the control key is determined by the height of the top cut relative to the bottom of the pin stack. So if is correctly pinned to 23, it's easy to calculate by just measuring the top pin and subtracting its value from 13. But if it's incorrectly pinned to 22 or 24, you could just take the sum of all the other pins (remember the bottom pin is measured differently). and subtract 5.

[rakemaster]

dunno why i said subtract 5. I mean 10, of course.

[WOT]

I had no idea you were a best specialist. I keep trying to figure out a tool that would open the control after the function has been picked and the plug turned 180 degrees, some kind of comb pick might work I think put up into the top cylinder from the bottom opening of the keyway once the plug is turned to present the top.

Picking the control line is very hard since you have to torque just the control shell. (when you disassemble the core, that part looks like a hollow tube).

Peterson makes a few different types of IC core tension wrenches.

If the core is built to the proper A2, A3, A4, I'm completely proficient with Best IC cores, but if it's not built correctly (like 22 stack, 24 on diff stack and 23 on rest.. WTF).

There's a formula my friend uses as well as another formula I use. They both yield the same control bitting on a properly made core, but on improper cores, our formulas give different answers.

[WOT]

I believe the control key is determined by the height of the top cut relative to the bottom of the pin stack. So if is correctly pinned to 23, it's easy to calculate by just measuring the top pin and subtracting its value from 13. But if it's incorrectly pinned to 22 or 24, you could just take the sum of all the other pins (remember the bottom pin is measured differently). and subtract 5.

Had one chamber with a #3 top pin (in icore locks, they're called btm, master, BU and top with possibly multiple master pins. I know plenty about Best and my mind think from tip to bow, but I don't know too well about other locks).

*1 mil = 1 thousandth of an inch.

I know that bottom pin is different, but easy enough. It's simply 110+12.5n mils. n=0-9

All but bottom pins for A2 system are n*12.5mils

So, any A2 stack is supposed to have a height of 12.5*23 mils +110 mils =397.5mils

[rakemaster]

Right, as I said, in an incorrectly pinned chamber, calculate the height of the control cut from the bottom and subtract 10 to get the key value.

[lostlink]

SFIC A2 format calls for total stack height of "23" units or 397/1000"

I've come across some where stack heights are 22 or 24. If the ctrl is to be derivated, what calculation method yields the smoothest operating ctrl bitting?

Another way.......in reguuards to calcuating the control bitting for an over or under stacked A2 chamber.

Just remember 10 will be your constant.....

Example #1....Top pin is 10, control pin is 6, master pin is 2, bottom pin is 6, for a total of 24. Subtract your constant (which is 10) from chamber total....24-10=14. Now you will subtract your top pin from the 14. 10-14=4. Your bitting for that chamber will be 4.

Example #2......Top pin is 8, control pin is 6, master pin is 2, bottom pin is 6, for a total of 22. Once again subtract your constant (which is 10) from chamber total........22-10=12. Again subtract top pin from remaining total.... 12-8=4. As you can now see your bitting for the same chamber is 4 also....

I hope this helps.........

[lostlink]

SFIC A2 format calls for total stack height of "23" units or 397/1000"

I've come across some where stack heights are 22 or 24. If the ctrl is to be derivated, what calculation method yields the smoothest operating ctrl bitting?

Another way.......in reguuards to calcuating the control bitting for an over or under stacked A2 chamber.

Just remember 10 will be your constant.....

Example #1....Top pin is 10, control pin is 6, master pin is 2, bottom pin is 6, for a total of 24. Subtract your constant (which is 10) from chamber total....24-10=14. Now you will subtract your top pin from the 14. 10-14=4. Your bitting for that chamber will be 4.

Example #2......Top pin is 8, control pin is 6, master pin is 2, bottom pin is 6, for a total of 22. Once again subtract your constant (which is 10) from chamber total........22-10=12. Again subtract top pin from remaining total.... 12-8=4. As you can now see your bitting for the same chamber is 4 also....

I hope this helps.........

Example #1 should be 14-10=4......not 10-14=4

[maxxx]

On an A2 sfic with a pin stack of 22 or 24 it could only have been pinned up incorrectly. No if ands or buts.

Easy to do I suppose if the light wasnt good, but still. How could you have good enough light on the pin kit, and your worksheet, but the light wasnt good enough to check that the cylinder was flush with pins all the way to the top, before it was cranked closed? You can do this with your finger.

How did the MK, CK & CT key work with the wrong stack in one hole?

Or more to the point, who would button up a core without checking it first?

Its all 23 or nothing on an A2. Break out the drill an hope it has a scalp.

^ my 3 cents anyway. (adjusted for inflation)

[Eyes_Only]

Picking the control line is very hard since you have to torque just the control shell. (when you disassemble the core, that part looks like a hollow tube).

Peterson makes a few different types of IC core tension wrenches.

I have the Peterson wrenches for the IC locks and I have to say that even though it is a professional tool designed specfically for these locks, they are really difficult to use. I have more success turning the plug either to the operating or to the control shearline with a regular flat tension wrench.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure its a great tool. I just found it difficult to use personnaly.

[lostlink]

On an A2 sfic with a pin stack of 22 or 24 it could only have been pinned up incorrectly. No if ands or buts.

Easy to do I suppose if the light wasnt good, but still. How could you have good enough light on the pin kit, and your worksheet, but the light wasnt good enough to check that the cylinder was flush with pins all the way to the top, before it was cranked closed? You can do this with your finger.

How did the MK, CK & CT key work with the wrong stack in one hole?

Or more to the point, who would button up a core without checking it first?

Its all 23 or nothing on an A2. Break out the drill an hope it has a scalp.

^ my 3 cents anyway. (adjusted for inflation)

There are reasons why someone may choose to do a 22 or 24 stack...although I don't agree with them.....

Err.....the pin stack will never be "flush to the top"

The control key, grand master key, and operator key will all work just fine because it's the driver pin (or top pin if you will) is what is being altered........I have made a core with the first chamber 24 and 4th at 22. All keys worked fine for the most part.....just a slight bind when the keys hit the first chamber...........easy to adjust by shortning the spring or adjusting the cap press......

[Squelchtone]

Lurking about, I found this thread,
I thought this would be a good opportunity to say

that

I finally picked a BEST 7 pin SFIC to control. That was last week, while actually trying to pick it to control. I can pick it to operator key easily, but using a standard wrench and a hook pick, I finally got control.

it was a surprise to see the core sliding out.. cool.

=)

Seasons Greetings
Squelchtone

[maxxx]

Eyes_Only said: There are reasons why someone may choose to do a 22 or 24 stack...although I don't agree with them.....


What might those be? Depleted your pin kit? They sell refills in 100 lots. Too tired or busy to pin it up correctly? So you hand over a lock that is wrong & you know it When it was your job to do it correctly?

If you dont use software, your first check is your worksheet, second check is the pin stack flush, third check is to drop the load, spot of your fav lube, press the stack down, load the springs then cover with your thumb and check all applicable keys.

If all is well, seat the spring cap and test again. That would be check #4. SFIC locks equals a $commercial$ client. The lock should be as smooth as butter. If you pin up locks out of spec, your replacement locksmith will certainly find your error and suggest you stick with Kwikset replacements. As well you should.

[maxxx]

Sorry, sorry. I apologize profusely, it was Lost link I should have typed rather than Eyes_only. Its late, sorry for the confusion. I was concentrating on the topic. My bad.