A straight forward question on EP Cylinders

[Kabal]

Hi there.
More than picking, i collect Europrofile Cylinders and Padlocks. For me now, it came the moment to put them into the field to protect my own soon to open business. Can anyone tell me, in terms of pure quality, resistance to picking and above all, resistance to brute force attacks which cylinder between the dom diamant and the abloy protec (all steel construction) is superior?
Thanks everyone.

[linty]

don't know dom diamant but with protec you don't have much to worry about in terms of picking, and as for brute force you should look at your door/frame and not your lock to increase that.

[NickBristol]

Both the Dom and the Abloy are well protected against forced entry, at least compared to the usual Euro cylinders fitted to properties. They both have some added snapping resistance built into the cylinder but a good pair of cylinder guards plus a set of bolt-through security escutcheons coupled with a cylinder that is the right size, ie flush with the escutcheon, should make it very difficult to carry out the usual attacks.

As linty says, your whole door and frame need protection too. And nothing much will stop a truck anyway...

[greyman]

Make sure the cylinder body can't be snapped. I wouldn't worry about people picking your door lock, but being bump-proof might be an idea these days. Both Protec and Diamant are OK in this respect AFAIK. Prery expensive locks, on the other hand, especially the DOM.

[Kabal]

Hi guys
First of all, thanks for all your answers.
As i'm writing i got both cylinders near me, the diamant and the protec. the protec appears to be more solid, it's one of the few cylinder that it is not made of brass with the usual hardened elements to resist drilling. it is made entirely of solid hardened steel, and it is modular.
I'll tell you exactly what my choices are and what i already have: evva 3ks, evva mcs, Vachette nt +, keso 2000s omega with chrome nickel housing, cisa rs3 (same as bricard chifral and abus ep10), the diamant and the protec.
Regarding escutcheons, i have an abus rosette, the one made of solid steel (edelstahl), and this was my choice before i ran into geminy shield, it was one of the few items i bought in a heartbeat, after seeing the article wrote by han fey. it's an outstanding piece of work in itself. see, the problem with the diamant is that it will not let you use a normal escutcheon with rotating plate due to the key shape that won't fit. no such problem with the geminy shield anyway.
i took a picture or two of all the cylinders but don't know how to make it available to you.
regarding the entrance door of my store, that does not worry me too much. it is made of an aluminum outer shell, with inner steel, and the glass is the same as the one used in a bank.
i live in italy and to be honest with you, normally people here have little choice left by locksmiths. it's all about cisa and mottura. i've seen the mottura c38 bumped, but the c48 seems to be ok. i will have it mounted on an internal ( to the store itself) armored door to guard a room where i keep sensible items.
I'm now into security stuff as an hobby, because in 99 thieves penetrated into my house by breaking a simple brass ep cylinder with the corkscrew system, they stole 2 cars, probably used sleeping gas to make sure we kept on sleeping, they even stopped and had something to eat on my table. it's soemthing, that i do not wish to anyone, and it's also something i swore it would not happen again, not that way at least.
Anyways thanks again, when i'll have it all mounted i'll take some pcitures to share with you.

[Jaakko]

Well, lets put it this way: There exists a decoder tool for the DOM but none for the Protec. Now, you said that both have the same construction otherwise, so which one would you choose?

[mitch.capper]

you have quite the collection of locks there too:) The idea of sleeping gas and such is fairly insane, I can definately see why one would beef security up after something like that.

You can't go wrong with an abloy protec;)

[NickBristol]

I'd go for the Evva MCS behind the Geminy shield - but then you could put a no-name euro behind a Geminy shield and still nobody would ever get to it!

How about getting a Vachette Radial Cliq? That looks a very nice cylinder. Anyone know how they are priced in the UK / Europe?

[Kabal]

Evva mcs is great, actually i'd prefer it to the protec, as it is much easier to insert, and retrieve the key, however chance of ep being picked is pretty slim. the mcs i believe is much weaker in terms of resistance to brute force attacks than the protec. also consider the protec i have is made of solid hardened steel. except for the diamant is the only ep i have seen that does not employ hardened pins to prevent drilling. it is one fully hardened body...and that's something. In my opinion the main drawpoint (so to speak) is that to retrieve the protec key after you lock or unlock you have to turn it half counterclock...but again once you get used to it...
The Vachette i have is nice, beefiest key i've seen. It's also well protected by tungsten carbide rotor pins and jointers. it's an option...
You know what really bothered me?....the romboidal key with colored caps in the keso 2000s omega EP i received from germany. Boy that is really mickey mouse quality...the cylinder is great but the key is too small to properly fit the cylinder when you have an escutcheon.
Funny si that the cisa rs3 key will fit perfectly an neatly into the keso..of course no bumping possible, but still...rather strange.
Actually, to be very truthful with you, i always thought the best option in any case is to use a lock not normally available in your country so to confuse thieves and force them to face problems new to them. that's why i wanted to go for a medeco m3 in the beginning...however a few "expert" guys have told me straight to quickly abandon this idea, as apart from not being unpickable is totally undefended agaisnt common methods of brute force attacks...at least in the EP brass variant we got here. medeco in american deadbolt fashion might be a whole different ball game but still...

[mh]

Although I really like DOM, I also recommend the Protec. Regarding inserting and removing keys, the DOM Diamant really feels strange, and one really nice thing about the Protec is that you can re-key it so easily yourself.

In terms of escutcheon plates with rotating inserts, I would think that most of them fit the DOM Diamant well. I had problems with a DOM ix earlier because the keyway is off-centered, and Zeiss-Ikon's M needed a special type, too (however all Zeiss-Ikon plates now work anyway).
Zeiss-Ikon makes them from stainless steel, too, but are you sure ABUS does? Which model?

Cheers,
mh

P.S.: If I wanted to protect myself from the attacks you described, I would also add some electronic security, too.

[yucki8aby]

hahaha. go to cisco and buy a vault door and install in your house. and make sure they can't climb up to your windows.

[Kabal]

To Yucki: actually i done sorta that...but we r talking about my store here, not my house.

To mh: Hi!! My experience. The abus schutzrosette i mean is the RSZS 316 for metal doors. they have different colors, but all made of aluminum, with a core of boron manganese steel. aluminum can easily be cut. they cost around € 30. The edelstahl model thou is made of all steel construction and costs around €85. In any case the diamant doesn't fit. I don't know about the zeiss ikon, which is not readily available in italy. I know tho about the mottura defender, which is quite possibly the finest escutcheon money can buy: fully constructed of carbonitred steel with boron rotating plates...several of them for a thickness of 12mm. http://www.mottura.it/ita/champions/4defender.htm
These defender however are made for armored doors. Also diamant doesn't fit them
In italy, rarely doors are reinforced like in germany with a panzerrriegel, they are simply made armored of steel under varoius classes of protection at a european level.
I remebe when i lived in germany to see so many entrance doors with a schtuzbeschlag, most made by abus.