could you pick a lock with this kind of restricted access?

[beaowolf]

So if you had a Medeco, Abus, Multilock padlock that was inside a large 5-sided "box" (say 2x2x2 feet square), with the padlock in a unmovable "small" 5-sided box such that the small box's 1 open side is facing the back of the large box (i.e., so you could only access the lock keyway by reaching into the large box, around the unmovable small 5-side box, and comming in from the back), and with the lock keyway opening only a key lenght away from the back of the large box, could you still pick all of the above locks?

Remember:
1) the small 5-sided box with the lock in it can not be moved, and the locked lock can not be removed from it. The 5 sides of the small box also prevent you from "holding" the lock in one hand.
2) the large 5-sided box can only be entered from the front.
3) the small 5-sided box with the lock in it can only be accessed from the back (which faces the closed back of the large box) and the keyway is a key length away from the back of the large 5-sided box.

[CatCube]

The small box is only unmovable if you don't have enough power tools.

[Darek84CJ]

I don't anyone here could pick a Medeco in the first place..

[Varjeal]

I haven't tried a Medeco yet, and I'd like to try, but don't think my confidence would be above zero at this point.

[randmguy]

Sure, I could do it while leaping a tall building on the back of a speeding locomotive...Look, Up in the sky! Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No its....
Pointless Question Man!

[pick_maker]

My neighbor can pick a Medeco with his feet. Matter of fact, my whole neighborhood picks Medecos. Double fact, keys are not allowed here by order of the Mayor. Triple fact, my wife's chastity belt is made by Kaba- from their 'off inventory' list. So I got that goin for me.

[CitySpider]

This sure is a real specific "hypothetical situation."

However, I don't think it'll help you too much to know that, if I understand your setup correctly, I don't think I'd have any problems with it, except that I've never tried to pick a Medeco or a Mul-T-Lock.

[beaowolf]

I have just stripped down a real situation into something easy to visualize/understand. The main point it whether or not restricting the keyway access will prevent someone from picking the lock. Clearly for many lockpicking "guns" and tools it would.

If I told you the large box was a -20oC freezer would that help?

And of course it HAS to be opened nondestructuvely!

[CatCube]

The main point it whether or not restricting the keyway access will prevent someone from picking the lock.

Even as a newbie, I can answer this. Of course it would. I'm sure it would affect a better picker much less than a new one, but position is important. If you have to hold an uncomfortable position while picking, you aren't going to feel anything as well, and if the lock takes a while, it's going to be torture.

I guess I'm more curious as to why you'd have a Medeco padlock inside a frickin' freezer.

[CitySpider]

That's better.

If I understand your situation properly, and I'm still not _positive_ that I do, I feel fairly safe in saying that any lock I can pick when it's right in front of me, I could pick in that situation. I've picked locks that I couldn't see, that I've had to reach around a desk to access, etc etc etc. It'd probably take longer and I'd probably be muttering some unkind things, but I think I could do it.

However, if it is a Medeco or a Mul-T-Lock or an Abus, you're probably safe without making us maneuver. Even if someone can pick that lock, they're just going to go somewhere else and steal somebody else's stuff.

Spider

[Chucklz]

I think the -20 would be a real factor though. A few minutes outside in the cold,and picking can be tough. At -20, your fingers are going to really stiffen up quickly. A few minutes with metal, and you have a nice freezer burn. I think that if I had to pick even a Master #3 at -20C, it would be more challenging certainly than at room temperature. Your average food freezer can be set to -20, so you can try picking in the cold.

[randmguy]

Having picked locks at -30F (-34C) I can tell you it stinks. Hands go numb quickly, springs don't spring well, and even teflon acts like axle grease when it gets that cold. Below zero temps are one of the few situations I can think of where WD-40 is a great thing to use in the lock.

[Mad Mick]

Just to go over Beaowolf's predicament:

He has lab samples which someone is tampering with. Someone who is able to pick/manipulate/impression the locks, such as Mult-lock & Medeco, that he has securing his work. In the same situation, I'd be severely pissed and inclined to set up some form of severe booby-trap. However, doing someone a serious/fatal injury would land me in jail for many years, something I don't wish to experience and I value my virginity if you know what I mean.

The only advice I can offer regarding the possibility of colleagues tampering with the stuff, is to smear a UV dye (such as the kind used in Air Conditioning leak detection) on the lock and have a specific part of your work area to which a blacklight is aimed. If a colleague wants to speak to you, coerce them towards the area and take a look at their hands. If they've touched the lock, the dye will fluoresce under the black light. Obviously, this would not be revealed on persons brought in to compromise the locks as they would not be around during your working hours.

Another possibility is to contact a surveillance supplier and see if they have a remote-recording video camera. I know it is likely to be expensive but, something such as a common desk object, with a hidden camera remotely transmitting to a video recorder in another part of the building, may catch someone in the act of tampering after you have left the building.

[randmguy]

Alright now that I know what is going on...Beaowolf you had a post earlier asking about Cyberlocks...I have talked to a couple of people about them and they have told me that they are unaware of any instance of them being picked. One guy told me of a way to force the lock but it takes some preparation and some tooling. The real weakness here is that you are dealing with a pad lock and anyone with access to tools is going to be able to remove a padlock.

Mad Mick's suggestion about surveillence is a good one though. If we're talking about a lab then I will assume you have a workstation of some sort available. We had really good luck a few months ago with a product from http://www.digi-watcher.com/. Its worked well for us because it only records when motion is detected and you can set it up to save as a file as well as viewing the cam realtime on the web.

[monkeE]

About the Medeco locks:

Those things are BEASTS! Not only do you have to aling the shear line, but you must also have the proper pin rotation! Here's a link for example bottom pinage:

http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/lockp ... ottom.html

If you *can* pick it, you are the master... If a Medeco is being opened without your permission, it is probably a case of someone having another key for the lock...

Just my 2 cents (+ more spare change) about that...