toughest lock

[lionking]

My toughest one was called a keymark. I really wanted to spend more time on it but its a lock for my uncles shop. This was a while back when I was a beginner. I started college now so I don't have much time to pratice. If you google keymark and select images you will see how it looks. Is that a high security lock? or was I a newbie

[MacGnG1]

shrouded brinks.

[JK_the_CJer]

Toughest Opened:

Assa V-10
Mul-T-Lock Classic
Medeco Classic with "ARX"

Toughest Unopened:

Abloy Protec
Bilock
Schlage Primus

I have not opened my Keymark yet; that keyway is mean. I can tell you that they are good quality locks with a crazy, patented keyways; but do not contain other high-security features.

[lionking]

anyone ever opened a keymark or a medeco. I think that you have to use the raking method?

[ToolyMcgee]

Ummm, JKtheCJer just said he opened a medeco. In fact, I think he has opened more than one. Just a hunch. What kind of force powers did you have to use to open the V10? That's awesome.

I just opened my biaxial medeco for the first time this afternoon with all 6 pins in it and the sidebar of course. No special tools, just practice, a top of the keyway tensioner and my trusty half diamond! SPP all the way. I have to say I am pretty stoked about it, but at the same time the victory is cheapened by the fact I knew the key. Still, for one split second I felt my pick intentionally ease that last mushroom driver into the bible I knew I had at last done it. The sidebar snapped into place I was KING! You SOB all that sidebar spring tension made those mushroom pins that much easier to defeat. Victory is mine! Now if I can ever do anything but false set that Assa 6000...

-Medeco biaxial
-7 pin BEST lock S keyway
-6 pin Kryptonite American cylinder (the biting on this thing was a nightmare)

I've picked some locks, but these were nothing shorter than rights of passage for me. Reverse order of course. I've gotta go ice my wrist...

-ToolyMcgee

[mitch.capper]

Toughest Opened:

Assa V-10
Mul-T-Lock Classic
Medeco Classic with "ARX"

I don't think you should be allowed to post in threads like this, just depressing for the rest of us...

[JK_the_CJer]

Ummm, JKtheCJer just said he opened a medeco. In fact, I think he has opened more than one. Just a hunch. What kind of force powers did you have to use to open the V10? That's awesome.

I just opened my biaxial medeco for the first time this afternoon with all 6 pins in it and the sidebar of course. No special tools, just practice, a top of the keyway tensioner and my trusty half diamond! SPP all the way. I have to say I am pretty stoked about it, but at the same time the victory is cheapened by the fact I knew the key. Still, for one split second I felt my pick intentionally ease that last mushroom driver into the bible I knew I had at last done it. The sidebar snapped into place I was KING! You SOB all that sidebar spring tension made those mushroom pins that much easier to defeat. Victory is mine! Now if I can ever do anything but false set that Assa 6000...

-Medeco biaxial
-7 pin BEST lock S keyway
-6 pin Kryptonite American cylinder (the biting on this thing was a nightmare)

I've picked some locks, but these were nothing shorter than rights of passage for me. Reverse order of course. I've gotta go ice my wrist...

-ToolyMcgee

Congrats on your conquest; enjoy your new addiction

As for the V-10, they are frickin hard. The normal stacks are just about a hard as the sidebar in my opinion. That said, the 6000 is harder than the V-10 methinks, those driver's spooling is way nastier. Also, I haven't managed to open one of them.

[datagram]

Currently working on the ASSA twin combi with a tool I made for working with the sidebar...not getting much progress but the tool seems to work pretty well. Also finally made myself an Everest half-key, worked at opening it earlier but got stuck after the 3rd pin was binding. Will keep at both of them until they inevitably force me to give up in disgust

dg

[n2oah]

My toughest one was called a keymark. I really wanted to spend more time on it but its a lock for my uncles shop.

Don't pick locks that are in use.

[ToolyMcgee]

Congrats on your conquest; enjoy your new addiction

As for the V-10, they are frickin hard. The normal stacks are just about a hard as the sidebar in my opinion. That said, the 6000 is harder than the V-10 methinks, those driver's spooling is way nastier. Also, I haven't managed to open one of them.

Gracias. I was addicted the moment I inserted the key. The machining on this thing is amazing and the design is ingenious. Chisel pins are the sheesy. I had picked it a few times with 4 pins out of sheer determination when I first got it, but set it down and had been tearing my hair out trying to pick the 6000. Then I decided that Medeco is THE lock I had always set my goals to, so I set up a board for it. I worked my way through each pin over the next two days. Pretty much 2 non stop 6 hour practice sessions, but I wasn't watching the clock. After a few hours picking other locks I came back, put in all 6 and picked it in 10 minutes. I almost strained my wrist. Scratch that, I did strain my wrist picking too much. I don't know if that's a good amount of time, or just sad, but my love affair with the engineering of this lock makes my focus double.

I wish I could say that about the 6000. It's giving me nightmares. Looking into the keyway of this thing is like staring into the soul sucking void of a blackhole. It is a @#%&!. The diagrams I have of the 6000 definately don't show everyone of these pins being spools. I wasn't expecting them to be this difficult. I'm having one hell of a time even picking the sidebar. I've done the whole setup once, in what I'm ashamed to say is probably close to 60 hours practice, and dropped it right into a false set spool pin before I choked and the whole thing reset. At least I think that's what happened. Either that or I had a mild stroke. It's like the whole lock jams or resets every time my focus wanders for even a second. I can't believe how tightly it's machined.

I'm surprised to hear you say you think the V-10 is easier. I mean I thought the way they changed the top pins made them look a little easier dispite the fact it is supposed to add pick resistance and aside from the fact the cylinder has the counter milling. I don't even know how you picked the insane side bar pins on this rediculous setup. I choose to believe you are just really good, because if it's luck I'm dead, and the 6000 is the lock that will kill me. I probably shouldn't talk about it anymore since it's an advanced forum lock. 15 or so more days and I'll know if I can talk about how much I stink at picking this sucker.

I predict your next lock to fall is the Primus or the 6000. Bilock... If you beat the Bilock first I will eat a live black widow spider. It's time for me to make some twisted half diamonds, and the shabbiest Medecoder you ever laid eyes on to have some real fun. Sorry for the rambling.

[quote="datagram"]
I'd like to see that tool, but I think I have a good idea what it looks like. Keep at the Everest. These locks are over rated because of that little check pin. With a little more practice and the tension tool you'll smash it to bits.

-Tooly

[raimundo]

I have picked keymark, but I have no doubt that some bittings in this lock could be extremely difficult.

The keyway is so paracentric that it is mostly impossible to use the area beneath the pins to manuver a common commercial pick in.

On keymark, just below the pins there is a ward that comes out from the left side of the the keyway and virtually cuts off the ability to work a pick beneath it and pick the pins above it. That said, there are a variety of keymark keyways, and I have seen one that was barely workable beneath this line.

You should use slimline picks and sand them so there are no sharp edges on the shaft or pick tip. Of course I used homemade picks when I did it.

There is a very simple pick design that you can make with little work that will allow more freedom in the keyway.

I made them from one of the base strings from a piano, the kind that are about .030" or thereabouts in diameter and wrapped in copper wire.

Cut a 5 inch piece, and use a fine file and some sand paper to round off the cut end so no sharp edges remain. then bend a loop by gripping the end you rounded off with a plier that does not have sharp grips in its jaw. An old plier that has had these worn out or a small needle nose that has no gripping texture inside the part closest to the hinge will do. curl this until you have a ring that will fit loosly on your second finger (the bird finger). When you have the loop you can set it with a few seconds over the flame of a bic lighter. then put the loop on the last knuckle of the bird finger, and bend the shaft of the wire about 30 to 45 degrees over the pointer finger. What you get should look like this 6 with a longer top shaft. The loop and the bend will help you control the orientation of the pick tip inside the lock.

you now have a pickshaft coming off the handle that will be a bit too long, you should decide where the handle ends for you and where the pickshaft begins, since the shaft is flexible, you do not want it longer than necessary for the job, so take a six pin key and use the measurement from the tip to the shoulder and at this length, with the smoothjaw plier, (so as not to produce nicks and toolmarks) bend the shaft sharply to about 60 degrees, or whatever you like for the angle of the hook tip. Then with a good dykes, hard and sharp, you clip off the wire to leave a hook tip on the pick. Finally, use a fine file and sandpaper to round the cut end of the hook so that it does not have any sharpness that would scratch the brass inside the lock

At this point you have a hook that has a somewhat flexible shaft, but that is not necessarily a bad thing, as it is not very much flex.

As described above, I have made these tools, but while writing this, I got the idea that perhaps this steel (piano wire) could be hardened to somewhat more like a sewing needle. This would be done with a bic lighter on the central area of the shaft, the short ends have not enough room to flex. Just heat the wire with the lighter for about 30 seconds and immediatly quench in ice water while its still dam hot. Prepare the ice water before you start heating the metal.

This will be a hook pick with a soft rounded end and a round shaft that will work around extreme warding.

yes you can pick Keymark, with the right tools they are not that hard.

[greyman]

I seem to remember a ver similar thread to this a while ago. Someone refresh my memory?

[op-sec]

anyone ever opened a keymark or a medeco. I think that you have to use the raking method?

I SPP'd my KeyMark SCIC 4 times. Now, I can't get it. I picked it 3 times as a naked core and once installed in my BEST SFIC padlock. I modified the very thin hook that comes in the GOSO 23-piece set. It was the only pick that would fit in the keyway. The lock opened with ease the first four times. Now, I can't seem to get it. I think I might need to clean/lube it to get the feeling back.

With that said, it is the hardest lock I've picked - ever - just because of the keyway being so restrictive. It takes a very light touch on the tension wrench and careful maneuvering of the pick. Hopefully, I'll get the feel back of my KeyMark so I can shoot a video. I'm glad I picked it in front of witnesses 3 of the 4 times!

[op-sec]

My toughest one was called a keymark. I really wanted to spend more time on it but its a lock for my uncles shop. This was a while back when I was a beginner. I started college now so I don't have much time to pratice. If you google keymark and select images you will see how it looks. Is that a high security lock? or was I a newbie

The KeyMark is made by Medeco and while it is a restricted (and VERY restrictive) keyway, the lock is a standard pin tumbler and does not incorporate any of the main security features that Medeco is famous for. IE; no biaxial pins, no sidebar, no slider.

With that said, the KeyMark SFIC is the hardest lock I've ever picked. I got one last Friday and while I have successfully picked it, it is a real to even get picks into the lock.

Is it "High Security"? Well, I guess that is going to depend on what you are comparing it to. Compared to the locks that many companies tout as "High Security", it is Fort Knox. You can not get the key blanks to do impressioning and you're not going to do the "photograph the key and cut a dupe out of plastic" trick either because of the paracentric keyway.

Here is a pic of the keyway and keys on my Medeco KeyMark SFIC:

http://www.op-sec.us/keymark.JPG

The video of it being picked is at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDxdHbwtUjw


Compared to a Biaxial or most other Medeco locks, it is not nearly as high security. It still holds the top spot in all of the locks I've ever picked though.

[AlexMHH]

Not that I expect to be able to pick this lock anytime soon myself, I am curious about the process. Does the Keymark require a special tension tool as I believe that most other SFIC cores do, or can it be picked without having to worry about two shear lines?