Safe problem

[novaman_68]

I bought a halls standard safe at an estate auction, I have a combination for it but I can't get it open. It has a mark at 12 o'clock and one at 10:30 to line up the combo numbers....which one do I use? I'm not asking on ways to bypass the lock(because I know it's taboo here). I think there might some papers jammed in the lock bars or something. It has a sargent & greenleaf combination lock and it feels like there might be some more drag than normal in the dial. I tried spraying wd-40 in the dial but I'm not sure what the actual problem is.....I'm asking for advice or things to try. I was told to try tapping on the handle with a hammer after putting in the combo, but I don't want to tear it up, because I want to use it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[quickpicks]

use the one on a 90 degree. if you need to tap it with a hammer, you're doing something terribly wrong. Did the dial retract the bolt after entering the combo? if not its the wrong combo so try again.

[novaman_68]

I didn't think it was right to tap on it, and no you can't hear the bolt retract. I thought there dial might be messed up inside or worn out, I might try a little while longer before calling a locksmith

[quickpicks]

have you ever dialled a safe combination on an actual safe lock like this before?

first off, go here http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/OPinstr.php
its either a 6700 3 wheel or a 4 wheel, depending on how many numbers are in the combo

[unlisted]

Photos? size of safe? I have some advice, but need those first before I can offer them to you.

[novaman_68]

I will take pics and get the dimensions tomorrow and post them, thanks

[thelockpickkid]

the only thing I can say without getting in trouble here is that sometimes a wheel or two can slip, when trying the combo try the number before and after, like this, say the first number is 68 try 67 and 69 I have taken some classes on this and have actually seen this work before.

[Legion303]

The 12 O'Clock mark is what you use. The dial spins to the left for the first number.

-steve

[FarmerFreak]

If the lock is malfunctioning, hitting the safe door with a rubber mallet will sometimes help...pending on the problem. And pending on if the combo is correct. But I wouldn't hit the handle or the dial with a hammer/rubber mallet, just the door itself. Also, getting this trick to work can be like picking a lock...Just because someone has the tools, doesn't mean that they can make it work. It typically requires former knowledge and practice. This may discourage you, but if the safe needs to be rapped on with a mallet to open. Do not close it, take it to a locksmith and get it repaired.

[mcm757207]

Here are some things can be a problem:

The dial ring could have become lose.
See the piece being the dial that has the mark you line the numbers up at? It's possible that has become lose. Can you move it with your fingers? If so, try adding one or two and subtracting one or two to each number and trying the combination again. For example, if your combination is 20-30-40, try:
21-31-41
22-32-42
19-29-39
18-28-38

A fly could be broken
A fly is a small metal tab used to connect each wheel in the lock (each wheel corresponds with one number in the combination). If one of these tabs is broken, your combination will not work. To make sure your flys are there, do this:
-Turn the dial four or five times CCW and stop at an arbitrary number, we'll say 50.
-Turn the dial CW and stop twenty numbers or so before the number you stopped at, so say 70 in this example.
-Quickly spin CW past 50- you should feel a "pick up" or an increase in drag. This can be difficult if it's an older safe that already has a lot of drag.
-Did you feel the wheel pick up? Good- the third wheel is probably fine! Now keep turning CW to 70 again, and repeat.
-Did you feel the pick up again? That's the second wheel. Do that one more time for the first wheel.
Hopefully all the flys were fine. If you didn't feel a wheel pick up, it might just be because your lock is old and it's just generally 'rough.'
This exercise can also help free up "stuck" wheels, so after doing this try your combo a few times. Maybe you'll get lucky!

The lever could be stuck
Once all the wheels are lined up, the lever is the part that drops into the gaps in them (these gaps are called "gates"). Sometimes this lever gets suck, which would prevent it from unlocking. So try this:
-First we need to determine where the "drop in" position is. Park all the wheels at 50, like the first step in the last part.
-Rotate the dial back around slowly. You are looking for a point where there are 10 or 15 numbers that have less drag, and you can feel a small resistance to the left and right of the gap. That's the drop in position. It might be between 0 and 15. Think you found it? Good.
-Dial your combination, and after the last number turn the dial around and stop it in the middle of your drop in position.
-Now take a deadblow hammer and start tapping around the dial. You might want to use a magazine or something to keep the paint from being damaged. Don't go crazy, but don't be afraid to give it a solid knock. While doing this, oscilate the dial back and forth around the drop in position. Occasionally turn the dial further clockwise, if it stops the safe should open! Don't turn it too far though, as you might have to enter the combination again.

Something on the interior of the safe is binding on the bolts
This isn't really that likely, but possible. If there is absolutely no movement in the door, this is maybe more likely. A safe door typically has a little bit of in and out movement, but if its blocked it might feel really solid. If this is the case, you need to enter the combination and kind of repeat the steps above, but take the extra step of turning the handle pretty hard (although not so hard as the break it) left and right (or up and down) to try and release pressure against the bolt work as you try to turn the dial to unlock the lock.

Still not getting it open? Time to call a safe technician. There's the very real possibility that the combination is wrong, so you need sometime to drill or manipulate to get the lock open. Good luck! You can't really hurt the safe trying everything I just mentioned, as long as you don't go too crazy with that hammer.

[novaman_68]

The safe is 28.5 tall x 20 wide x 21 deep, there are numbers on the hinges 253584 on the top hinge and R2607 if that helps. The combination is 80-42-0, I tried switching the order of the numbers around,(0-42-80,42-0-80,etc) just in case they wrote them down wrong...but no luck yet. Here's a pic of the safe, I put the bucket next to it for size reference.

[unlisted]

Well, most my suggestions were already offered (rapping with a hammer on the door, etc)

Does the handle turn after the correct code? if that sticks, try compressing the door more into the safe, etc (same as the hammer theory)

Also, you could try tipping it a bit onto the back two legs, and let it hit the front legs on the floor, while trying to turn the handle if thats what is stuck. I would recommend at least one helper and maybe a rope on the handle for this little trick.


The above methods would only work if a bolt or the bolt mechanism is stuck/binded up. I just actually encountered almost the same issue with a safe I bought recently.

I used Vaseline to re grease everything when I got it all opened up... Figure its good enough for a Maglite, its good enough for a safe bolt mechanism.

[mcm757207]

The safe is 28.5 tall x 20 wide x 21 deep, there are numbers on the hinges 253584 on the top hinge and R2607 if that helps. The combination is 80-42-0, I tried switching the order of the numbers around,(0-42-80,42-0-80,etc) just in case they wrote them down wrong...but no luck yet. Here's a pic of the safe, I put the bucket next to it for size reference.

Have you tried my suggestions above?

[novaman_68]

I haven't had a chance to try any of the suggestions yet, but I will later tonite when I get home

[Legion303]

Someone with more safe experience will correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me like 0 is in the dead zone and shouldn't be used as the last number...so if that's what someone set it to, that might be why you're having trouble opening it.

Then again I could be completely wrong.

-steve