Newbie and a question...

[SafeKeeping]

Hello everyone,
This looks like a cool place to be, I've just gotten into picking. I recently acquired an old Victor Safe & Lock Co. safe and while trying to open it I found this site. I know that safe "cracking" can't be discussed unless you're in the special forum, but I have a general question about safes which I thought would be safe to ask. I have ideas how to try combinations, but I'm curious how one "resets" the safe after you try a combination. Is there a standard "turn the dial right 3 times" to "clear" the wheel pack and notches, or can you just dial the combination from any position? I've read up on HowStuffWorks.com and others places but couldn't visualize this part of the process

Thanks for the help!

[FarmerFreak]

Welcome to the forums. And yes this is a cool place to be.

or can you just dial the combination from any position?

Yes.
The act of dialing the combo will clear whatever was dialed previously.

[datagram]

Rotary combination safes use a set of wheels, each wheel being for a different number in the combination. Each wheel has a "fly" that picks up the next wheel once the current wheel has made a full rotation.

When you start to dial you usually dial 3 or 4 times to one direction. This picks up ALL the wheels. You eventually stop on your first number, then reverse the direction you dial. This restarts the process of picking up wheels until you are working with the second wheel in the combination only. And so on and so forth, you progressively pick up and move fewer wheels until your combination is entered, at which point various mechanisms try to retract the bolt, assuming the correction combination was entered.

When this is done you are usually told to rotate the dial a few times to one direction. This again picks up all the wheels and leaves them at a pseudo random location (wherever you decide to stop); random enough that the original combination cannot be easily discovered. Of course, if someone doesn't pick up and rotate all the wheels (only the last one, for instance), it is possible to open the lock by manipulation, but that is probably a topic for the advanced section.

To paraphase, you don't "start" on a particular location, but you need to rotate a few times so that you pick up all the wheels and your combination is properly transmitted to the correct wheels.

Hope that helps.

dg

[straightpick]

The dial is turned one more time than the number of wheels to "clear" the combination. If there are three numbers in the combination, turning it four times will pick up all the wheels. If there are four numbers then you have to turn it five times, etc.

[SafeKeeping]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I found online the pattern for the Victor's made before 1917 and I am hoping mine fits the scheme. I had 100 combinations to try and none of them opened the safe, I think I may have to reverse directions and try again. I just wanted to make sure my clearing was working so that I wasn't spinning that dial for nothing

[Jaakko]

No, no and no. You do not have to "clear" anything or "pick up" the wheels, you just start dialing. With a three number combination lock you dial:

4 times to the first number.
3 times to the second number.
2 times to the third number.
1 time to the bolt retraction.

By "clearing / picking up" the wheels you just induce unnecessary wear on the lock.

[LocksmithArmy]

No, no and no. You do not have to "clear" anything or "pick up" the wheels, you just start dialing. With a three number combination lock you dial:

4 times to the first number.
3 times to the second number.
2 times to the third number.
1 time to the bolt retraction.

By "clearing / picking up" the wheels you just induce unnecessary wear on the lock.

The "4 times to the first number" does pick up the wheel pack. the first 3 turns pick 'em all up and the last turn sets the first number.

[Jaakko]

The "4 times to the first number" does pick up the wheel pack. the first 3 turns pick 'em all up and the last turn sets the first number.

Yes I know, but majority of people first dial 4 times to "clear" the pack and after that they start dialing 4 times the first number and so on, because they think that they have to clear it first.

And yes, I have seen this many times.

[LocksmithArmy]

Oh, I figured you knew Jaakko. I was merly adding to your comment so people would know why it was 4 to the first number and they would get the idea that this picks up the whold wheel pack.

Sorry if I sounded insulting it was not my intention.
I have seen many prople clear it before going 4 to the first as you mentioned aswell.