did i ruin the lock?

[Baal]

Well i got my kit today and decided to try on this little Phillips mounted 4 pin lock, its one of those rotating ones that you have to turn several times and you cant pull the key out unless you are finished spinning it.

So well i succeeded in picking it (single pick) but as soon as i turned it 180° it locked again and the pins wont move, and even keys that normally would normally fit, wont go in anymore, its in that current "locked" state that wouldnt let the original key to get out.

Is there something i can do about this or i will have to drill it?

[WolfSpring]

I'm not familiar with this particular lock, but if it went 180 and locked again, and the key does not fit, I would pick it and return it back to the original locked position, then try with the key. I'm betting the key only goes in when it is at the 0 degree position and there is either a second set of driver pins at the 180 position and the key will not go int due to a keyway/groove issue. If this is the case I would guess the best way to pick this lock would be to pick it till it moves and use a plug spinner to get it the rest of the way, or you'll have to pick it every time it hit's the dirver pins. Again I'm not famiar with this particular lock. Also if there isn't asecond set of driver pins, but there is holes on the 180 postion you could turn the lock upside down and see if they drop back in, just a thought.

[LocksmithArmy]

you said the pins will no longer move... check to see if the driver pins fell down into the keyway... if they have you can either tension the cylinder and push them up with your pick or you can push them up with a tensor and then rotate it.

the reason your key will not go in is because the bottom pins are sticking down into where the key goes and will not move out of the keys way.

enjoy,

[WolfSpring]

OMG I'm a retard, wasn't even thinking of the driver pins falling into the keyway, I got hung up on the several turns to open it and in my in-experience missed that completely.

Good catch

[Baal]

the pins are simply not moving, i cant push them back in.

Ill try to explain what kind of lock it is, you know those locks that need 360° or more to function that have no spring to return to normal position and wont let you pull the key before its fully open (or closed).

Its not a matter of force either because keys wont get in either, no matter how hard i push or giggle the cylinder.

[MacGyver101]

the pins are simply not moving, i cant push them back in.

Urm, sorry... just to be 100% certain: which pins are you trying to move?

If the lock is stuck with the plug rotated 180°, then you should be looking for "pins" (the drivers, actually) pushing into where the bottom of the key would normally be... it's those pins that you should be lifting up. If you've tried to force a key in while it's in this position, though, you may have caused other problems, as Raymond suggested in this thread.

[unlisted]

Post some photos, that will help us help you.

make, model of the actual lock helps as well.

[Baal]

the pins are simply not moving, i cant push them back in.

Urm, sorry... just to be 100% certain: which pins are you trying to move?

If the lock is stuck with the plug rotated 180°, then you should be looking for "pins" (the drivers, actually) pushing into where the bottom of the key would normally be... it's those pins that you should be lifting up. If you've tried to force a key in while it's in this position, though, you may have caused other problems, as Raymond suggested in this thread.

yup the same thing described in the thread happened to me.

The lock wasnt in normal position, it was sideways, the key pins were originally facing west and no they are facing east.


I am not sure i totally understood you, do you mean that cylinder has "holes" on the side the key is flat, so when it was rotated 180°, the driver pins fell on them locking it in place, and i have to push them back in and keep rotating?

I mean the driver pins are sticking out on the opposite side of the key pins?.

This makes sense because the tension wrench is not going in all the way as it did before

[Baal]

oh yeah it looks like the drive pins are sticking out on the "wrong" side... so i have to push them back in with some torque like if i were lock picking right?

BTW why does it have those holes in there, is it to make it more secure or something?

[Baal]

mmm this is going to be a , how deep how i have to push them in? its also a to keep the in since there isnt really room for the tension wrench and it easily slips out, is there some kind of diagram or something so i can picture this better?

[Baal]

UPDATE:

Ok i understood what you meant, i pushed the drive pins back, the cylinder rotated another 25° and gets stuck again, i cant feel any drive pins sticking on the flat side of the key now... what now?

[LocksmithArmy]

ok... now we need a picture... I have a few theories but a picture would be nice

Maby your cylinder housing has holes in the bottom off to the side for rekeying and the key pins fell into those holes... in that case try turning the whole locks so that the keyway is rightside up(the locks it upside down... sorta) and give it a good shake or a gentle rap while wiggleing the plug with your tensor... this should allow the key pins to fall back into the plug and allow you to rotate the cylinder the rest of the way... hopefully. I am assuming this lock is not attached to anything and you can flip it around any which way in your hands.

the reason the bottom of your plug is open is because that is where the key goes... why plugs arnt closed on the bottom I dont know, some are, in some the keyway is too small for the driver pins to fall in... others just have that fault... oh well be careful and its and easy fix, usually

[FarmerFreak]

Is it stuck turned that extra 25 degrees? Or can you turn it back to the original problem at 180 degrees?

It's possible that it's a cheap lock and when you picked it originally it had a shallow cut and the driver pin stayed with the key pin. If this happened (or if a driver pin got taken out when it was turned at a 180), you would have started to crank on a spring after "it" dropped into the keyway when the other driver pins did. And it wouldn't be so likely that you would have lifted it up enough to prevent it from being crushed and dragged between the cylinder and housing. This would likely cause the lock to completely seize at some random position. Sometimes you can fix this with a screwdriver and force. But using force is rarely the solution, and the lock may never be the same.

I'm not saying that this is what happened to your lock, it is only an idea.

Pictures would be best, but there may not be a good solution. Either way please take pictures before trying to force the lock.

And hopefully the lock isn't mounted to anything. This is a good example of why not to pick locks in use.

[FarmerFreak]

Just to clear up some things in my last post.

the driver pin stayed with the key pin

This means the driver pin was under the shear line to begin with.

Sometimes you can fix this with a screwdriver and force

This won't fix the problem, but you may be able to get the cylinder to a better position to take it apart. Like the unlocked position.

[Baal]

Well the bad news is the lock is mounted, its from a little door i lost the key a while ago so i decided to try my lock on it, so i cant move it around.

i didnt understand what you were trying to say, could you maybe draw it or something?, im a newbie so its hard to picture some things.