Schlage with no key

[sugurfoot]

I have a Schlage "F" series knob and I went to Schlage Manual to see about re-keying. They explain it with "If" you have the key, you turn it 1/4 turn and so on.. But what if you don't have the key. I can see the two small holes on the shank of the knob but can't get it to push in and pull off like you would other kbobs or the inside part of a knob. I hope I get it clear as to what I need? The door knob is off the door in 2 parts and I know it comes off because I saw the re-key manual, but have no key to turn it. Thank you...

[Legion303]

You'll have to pick it open and turn it the 1/4 turn with your wrench. When repinning, don't forget to put the plug back in already turned (unless you have the new key, of course), then spin it back to the starting position to get all the pins lined up.

-steve

[sugurfoot]

Thank you very much for your fast reply. Another one bites the dust....

[WOT]

You'll have to pick it open and turn it the 1/4 turn with your wrench. When repinning, don't forget to put the plug back in already turned (unless you have the new key, of course), then spin it back to the starting position to get all the pins lined up.

-steve

Schlage specifies three different types of top pins depending on pin height total. When you rekey in that manner, how do you change out the top pins to the proper ones?

[Tyler J. Thomas]

You'll have to pick it open and turn it the 1/4 turn with your wrench. When repinning, don't forget to put the plug back in already turned (unless you have the new key, of course), then spin it back to the starting position to get all the pins lined up.

-steve

Schlage specifies three different types of top pins depending on pin height total. When you rekey in that manner, how do you change out the top pins to the proper ones?

I thought F series top pins were an exception because they fit into the springs and have a reduced height? I'm pretty sure the thinking behind that was that residential locksets weren't really intended to be master keyed so expecting anymore than the typical .300 pin wouldn't be an issue.

[Legion303]

Schlage specifies three different types of top pins depending on pin height total. When you rekey in that manner, how do you change out the top pins to the proper ones?

When I'm dealing with balanced stacks, I lay them all out on the table before repinning to make sure I don't screw it up.

-steve

[WOT]

Does residential Schlage have the same MACS of 7?

If you were to pin 0,2,4,6,8 you'd use the same top pin for all 5 stacks??

[Legion303]

It's possible we're not even talking about the same thing. It sounds like you're referring to repinning as a locksmith-type function where the goal is to have a lock working with a specific key, whereas when I do it it's to make picking the lock a little different. As such, I don't generally worry about MACS. But when I have "balanced stacks" (i.e., shorter drivers match up to longer key pins and vice versa), I make sure to keep them that way when repinning. So in your example I would match 02468 with (just making these numbers up) something like 33221 for the top pins, to keep the stacks more or less the same overall length.

-steve

[CptedIV]

Whats good practice pinning for a kwikset? I just got a kw pinning kit, with master pins security pins top pins and bottoms from 1-6.

Thanks,
Ed

[zeke79]

There is an easy bypass for the F series locks. It utilizes one of the holes that you are working with. Knowing that, with a bit of thinking I am sure you can figure out what can be done for the bypass.

[WOT]

It's possible we're not even talking about the same thing. It sounds like you're referring to repinning as a locksmith-type function where the goal is to have a lock working with a specific key, whereas when I do it it's to make picking the lock a little different. As such, I don't generally worry about MACS. But when I have "balanced stacks" (i.e., shorter drivers match up to longer key pins and vice versa), I make sure to keep them that way when repinning. So in your example I would match 02468 with (just making these numbers up) something like 33221 for the top pins, to keep the stacks more or less the same overall length.

-steve

What's a commercially feasible way of doing that? Some cylinders don't have the top part permanently sealed (i.e. no holes at all) and with resi-keying manual, it recommends the use of follower and not letting the top pins out at all.

If you let all the top pins out, how do you load them back in, without you know... manually pushing them in with tweezers that requires a bit of skills.

[Legion303]

My "plug follower" is usually a long socket from a socket wrench set, but when I don't use one I do load the pins in by hand. It sucks as much as you suggest. I'm not sure what you mean by "commercially feasible"...you mean how would it work for a lockie doing many rekeys in a day?

-steve

[WOT]

My "plug follower" is usually a long socket from a socket wrench set, but when I don't use one I do load the pins in by hand. It sucks as much as you suggest. I'm not sure what you mean by "commercially feasible"...you mean how would it work for a lockie doing many rekeys in a day?

-steve

Follower prevents the top pins from coming out, but it doesn't let you change the top pins.

Painstakingly loading pins manually spending half an hour is fine for hobby.

Commercially feasible means that time is money, so when comparing the cost of a new randomly keyed cylinder against current market rate for labor cost to rekey, then the latter must have a substantial advantage.

[FarmerFreak]

Follower prevents the top pins from coming out, but it doesn't let you change the top pins.

Painstakingly loading pins manually spending half an hour is fine for hobby.

Followers may prevent the top pins from coming out, but it is very important for a lockie to check "all" the driver pins "every" time a re-key is done. You do this by sliding the follower back and hold the pins down with tweezers. Then slowly let them come up under the tweezers and check to make sure that there aren't any master pins left in the lock. And to make sure the springs are all working correctly. Sometimes changing the driver pins is important too.

I'm not sure why you think loading the driver pins is difficult and would take a half hour. Loading top pins takes about 10 seconds per pin, no I haven't timed myself or others, it just a very short and quick process. Ok fine, with a little practice and tweezers it is a very short process.

Yes there are some cheap cylinders that are cheaper than the price of re-keying. But then you are selling cheap hardware, and hopefully only replacing cheap hardware.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Follower prevents the top pins from coming out, but it doesn't let you change the top pins.

Painstakingly loading pins manually spending half an hour is fine for hobby.

Followers may prevent the top pins from coming out, but it is very important for a lockie to check "all" the driver pins "every" time a re-key is done. You do this by sliding the follower back and hold the pins down with tweezers. Then slowly let them come up under the tweezers and check to make sure that there aren't any master pins left in the lock. And to make sure the springs are all working correctly. Sometimes changing the driver pins is important too.

I'm not sure why you think loading the driver pins is difficult and would take a half hour. Loading top pins takes about 10 seconds per pin, no I haven't timed myself or others, it just a very short and quick process. Ok fine, with a little practice and tweezers it is a very short process.

Yes there are some cheap cylinders that are cheaper than the price of re-keying. But then you are selling cheap hardware, and hopefully only replacing cheap hardware.

That, or you could just use a master follower and allow the top pins to drop down and you can then visually inspect them without having to reload them.