Serious problem! HELP!

[dinero]

After reading up on locksport and becoming thoroughly excited to try it out, I bought a set of picks on lockpickshop.com...after all, the state law in the Law thread (I'm from Tennessee) said that it is safe to possess these tools as long as you do not commit a burglary/show intent.

BUT APPARENTLY the law was amended in 2007 and now it is a FELONY for me to possess the tools in my state! They are being shipped here! What do I do!

Ahhh!!

[hydruh]

Send them back.

S

[dinero]

Well I am now wondering what I should do between these options:

-If I am not preemptively in trouble for arriving to pick the tools up:
1) Pick them up and leave. Don't get caught with them.
2) Write in large black letters 'RETURN TO SENDER' on the box, leave.

-If I AM in preemptive trouble and I am suddenly informed that I am committing a crime possessing these tools:
1) Don't touch them?
2) Ask to have them thrown away?

I MUST stay out of trouble, but I'd like to have that beautiful 14-tool set if I can...

[Squelchtone]

Relax.

The law makes it a felony to anyone who is commiting a crime and probably to whomever is not a locksmith, security person, cop, tow truck driver, etc. Are you a student of lockpicking? I think you are. So since you're in the business or will be soon enough, its not illegal. If it was a felony for anyone in your state to own a set, how would locksmiths get people into their houses when they loose their keys?

But if you're that paranoid, pick up the package, email lockpickshop saying you got the wrong thing, you havent opened it, and you need an RMA to return it and get a refund.

Besides who would inform you that the tools you got are illegal? Last I checked the post office doesn't open my mail which will be a plain brown envelope from LPS.com It wont say 'lock pick set inside, please detain the person picking them up'

Squelchtone

[dinero]

that's relieving to hear, squelchtone...so here's where I'm now at:

-In TN, it actually IS a felony for anyone other than a professional locksmith to carry the tools. The legality is obvious--it's illegal here.

-Next order of business, if nothing will happen to me when I take them from the postman, I don't care. I'll take them. And just not get caught with them. But the thing that worries me is, isn't it on public record then that I bought something illegal?

I mean, it seems too easy: you couldn't have marijuana shipped to you in a box could you? It's on the same level of illegality here (felony). So isn't it kind of a bad idea to take the picks from the postman?

What are your thoughts now, squelch? thanks for helping.

[ElAbogado]

that's relieving to hear, squelchtone...so here's where I'm now at:

-In TN, it actually IS a felony for anyone other than a professional locksmith to carry the tools. The legality is obvious--it's illegal here.

-Next order of business, if nothing will happen to me when I take them from the postman, I don't care. I'll take them. And just not get caught with them. But the thing that worries me is, isn't it on public record then that I bought something illegal?

I mean, it seems too easy: you couldn't have marijuana shipped to you in a box could you? It's on the same level of illegality here (felony). So isn't it kind of a bad idea to take the picks from the postman?

What are your thoughts now, squelch? thanks for helping.

I am enjoying watching this thread! Better than soaps on TV....

El Abogado

[pjzstones]

i currently live in tennessee and this law really pisses me off!! i make my own tools though. your not going to run into any problems having them sent through the mail. especially if you don't open the package til you get home. if you just keep your tools at home there shoudn't be any problem. unless there was a reason why police would search your home, but if that's the case then i'd think that lockpicking tools would be the least of your worries. so just keep them at home and don't break the law.

[dinero]

Crap! Now I'm in a pickle.

When I made this topic, I emailed lockpickshop.com's customer support and said "I need my order canceled blah blah blah." It looks like they would ship it tomorrow if they do at all. So now I am wondering if I should email back and said "Wait, it's okay, go ahead and ship them" ??? That seems very odd to say. And, I need to be absolutely sure it's safe for me to receive these in the mail...can anyone confirm this?

[pjzstones]

most things are legal to be mailed and be handled as long as it's in the original unopened package that it was shipped in. thats how some foreign companies are able to send things here like marajuana seeds. once the package is opend is when you can be charged with a crime. now i'm not 100% sure on this so don't take it for granted i just read it in a high times magazine a few years back.

[Squelchtone]

Crap! Now I'm in a pickle.

When I made this topic, I emailed lockpickshop.com's customer support and said "I need my order canceled blah blah blah." It looks like they would ship it tomorrow if they do at all. So now I am wondering if I should email back and said "Wait, it's okay, go ahead and ship them" ??? That seems very odd to say. And, I need to be absolutely sure it's safe for me to receive these in the mail...can anyone confirm this?

Well the only thing to worry about is that lockpickshop usually throws in an ounce of really icky sticky buds during the holidays, and they smell so yummy, but I'm sure the post office dogs will find the weed, and then they'll see the pick set and then they'll just send the US Marshals to your house.

Just kidding, and stop worrying, lockpickshop is a great place, and unless youre some up to no good teenager, then you have nothing to worry about. How does the post office know you're not a locksmith? How do they even know what is in the package?

Squelchtone

[dinero]

sso are you guys recommending I recontact LsS and say to continue and ship the tools? Lol. Just paranoid.

[unlisted]

sso are you guys recommending I recontact LsS and say to continue and ship the tools? Lol. Just paranoid.

Put down the bong and/or the joint than.

Don't worry about receiving them- unless, you have broken the law in the past, or are being "watched" by the man for something... like suspicion of crime.

[dinero]

I've continued to read up on postal service regulations and scanning processes, and it hasn't been positive.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/39/3002a.html <---Apparently, it's against the law to ship any locksmith tools to another state to anyone that is not a locksmith.

What about all of the people on this board? Surely not many people here are licensed locksmiths, yet many purchase sets on LSS or Southord...is there no risk of charges? Especially because LSS has you sign the form that puts all of the illegal responsibility on you as the buyer.

Only possible thing that could happen, as I see it:
-UPS/USPS reads the "Locksmith Tools" label on the package, is aware that it is illegal to ship them to another state resident that is not a licensed locksmith, and records this. The postman rings my doorbell, I sign to receive the package, all is gravy. And then the police come to my house to ask if I accepted the package and I'm not a locksmith and yada yada yada. I've heard of this happening for people who had pot shipped to their house.

I promise, I'm getting a laugh out of some of your responses, especially the US Marshall scenario...but I'm just trying to cover my ass. I DON'T want to pay a fine or (almost impossibly) go to jail. So what do you guys think. Thanks

[rx6006]

You're awfully paranoid about a rather innocuous purchase under normal circumstances. Firstly, the packages aren't boldly labeled "Locksmith Tools"; if such was the case with mail order purchases, the whole neighborhood would know when Mrs. Jones ordered a new thong or Mr. Jones needed a Viagra refill via parcel post.

Secondly, as our colleagues have pointed out, the government doesn't exactly wait with baited breath to arrest Johnny Citizen for buying a couple of lockpicks...unless of course you've had undisclosed priors relating to larceny et al, in which case we'd prefer you not possess the tools at all. For those of us who live in states repressive enough to ban fireworks, we simply drive across state lines and purchase them. We then proceed to fire them off on the 4th of July with the other 70% of the state population. Some legislation is simply in place to assure prosecution WHEN a crime is committed; the state could care less any other time.

Lastly, if you're really that upset about the situation, go to a payphone and contact your state attorney general's office. Give them the lockpicking student scenario; my guess is they will honestly care less.

[unlisted]

I'll make this simple.

Don't get them- you are too worried to own lockpicks, ethically speaking. Legally, it may be a no no- but its just one of those "things"

What do you plan on using them for? simple lock pickign in the comfort of your own residence? or meeting up with like minded people at a coffee shop or a locksport meeting? Or, do you want to try and open random house door locks, and pop machines?

I assume you have had some past dealings with some form of law enforcement, or you have been or like to cause trouble. (otherwise, you would not be making a big deal out of this) If your intentions are strictly hobbiest (like most on this site) than there is really no reason for you to be worried about getting these in the mail. Its not like you are importing 20 tonnes of coke from Cuba or something.

Now, just to clarify some points. I used to be a LEO- so I know what I'm talking about on this: If you have ever been arrested, or questioned on something that happened (and not caught) and underage, I would personally not want to see you with picks- not because of I don't want you in the hobby, but if something were to happen (you got into trouble for something unrelated, example, got stopped for smoking or drinking underage, and you happen to have those tools on you, ya would be in a world of hurt "legally speaking"


Now, if you have never been in trouble before, and this is just a hobby your really interested in, order them, accept the package, take it home and open the package @ your personal residence (house) Than, don't ever take them outside the house.

In the past 10 years, my picksets have only been out of the house about 3 times. Once for work (idiot locked his gun and keys in the filing cabinet (push button lock) so I picked that open. the other two times was for a locksport meet, and the final was to show some friends and lockies what tooks I currently own.

When I first started in this hobby I was rather concerned and almost paranoid about getting shipments, etc.. after a while you will see it as a "more normal" (to yourself) hobby and hopefully wont be so paranoid about it.

Heck, I don't think twice about it now, plus, if anyone ever questioned my "intents" (on why I had lockpicks) I would show them the collection of locks, and keys, and say look. its my hobby.



And that is only 10% of the full collection. And, if I am still being hassled, I than produce this: