Car ignition key refuses to turn... lubrications?

[kloijm]

Hi. My question may be an extremely simple one for most folks around here. But that said, hopefully the answer is just as simple. This isn't a lock picking issue, but maybe someone here might be familiar with the mechanics of what I'm dealing with.

In the past 3-4 weeks the ignition key in my old Toyota Corolla has been refusing to turn. Up until recently the key would turn and start the car the first time I got into the car each day. But then after stopping and parking somewhere for a while, I'd get back in and the key would refuse to turn.

I spend 3-4 minutes wiggling the key side to side, in and out, and rotating the steering wheel. The steering column lock will release, and the key will turn very slightly, but won't go any further. After one of several pauses from wiggling and shaking, I'll grab the key and it will twist effortlessly and start the car. I can immediately stop the engine, remove the key, reinsert it and it'll turn freely with no resistance whatsoever. I can do that several times and never have the key refuse to turn.

Recently the key has been refusing turn the very 1st time I get into the car for the day.

I got some graphite and squirted some into the cylinder via the key slot. Coated some on the key, inserted and twisted back and forth a number of times. But it's had no effect. After the car sits, usually in the daytime, the key will refuse until I wiggle and wait.

I called a locksmith who said graphite can actually pack the tumblers, and that they clean the cylinder with either compressed air or some solution, and then use a silicon lubricant.

I asked if a penetrating oil like WD40 might clear up any oxidation or whatever else might be causing the problem. But the reply was that WD40 could cause the graphite I put in there to cake and clog things worse than they already are.

I've been quoted anywhere from $175 - $400 to replace the cylinder, so I want to try everything I can myself before handing it over.

Can anyone explain what may be going on inside this beast? Or the best way to try freeing up things as they are at this point short of swapping the cylinder?

And does anyone know if there such thing as aftermarket ignition key cylinders for Toyotas that might be a bit less pricey than the ones from the dealer? The locksmiths I spoke to on the phone all said they get the replacement cylinders from the dealers.

Thanks for any feedback or suggestions.
(Possibly other lock forums to post to?)
(And what's with center text justification??)

[Legion303]

You could start by assuming they're right about the clogging, and use compressed air to try blowing any foreign material out. As far as replacement cylinders go, your best bet is to hit the junkyard. But depending on how old the car is, you might be in for a very long disassembly process. :)

-steve

[lunchb0x]

Probably the split wafers in the lock as this is a very common problem, best way to fix it is to pull the ignition apart and remove those wafers but to do this you will need to turn it to the Acc position, if you need info on how to pull it apart I can write it out later for you, don't really have time right now

[kloijm]

That's pretty much what I was thinking. After compressed air, I'm leaning towards WD40. One locksmith I called told me that's what he sometimes tries 1st to free sticky auto cylinders. Though I hadn't mentioned the graphite I'd used.

I'm also trying to track down just what else might be in the steering column attached to the lock cylinder. I've read accounts online by people with Toyotas from around the same year, '98, where they described both mechanical devices and/or wires and switches that were causing problems, and not the cylinder.

The lock isn't covered in the Haynes manual. And I'm having problems tracking down just what all's in there, and procedures for getting at them.

So it sounds like there are no cheaper aftermarket cylinders.

[kloijm]

Probably the split wafers in the lock as this is a very common problem, best way to fix it is to pull the ignition apart and remove those wafers but to do this you will need to turn it to the Acc position, if you need info on how to pull it apart I can write it out later for you, don't really have time right now

I read one account somewhere on some older Toyota model where the person said all that was needed to remove the lock cylinder was to remove the round plastic retainer that surrounds the outside of the cylinder (but how to accomplish that?), put the key to the ACC position, and the cylinder comes right out.

Someone else wrote about the same, but added a 1/8 inch rod he pushed throught some hole while pulling on the key while in ACC.

If I eventually get it out, I'll report back and see if you can describe how to address the wafers.

Thanks for your feedback.

[Eyes_Only]

If you're not familiar with working on the interior of a car or not have any experience servicing ignition locks I'd leave this to a professional locksmith.

Depending on the year of the car you'll probably have to remove a few lower dash panels like the knee bolster and some other trim around the lock first. Then find a way to get the ignition to the ACC position and now that some of the trim and panels around the lock is removed, depress the active retainer located usually on the bottom side of the ignition and ignition housing to be able to remove the culinder.

I usually repair most of these locks if they're still in reasonably good shape and so the customer can retain the same key for the doors and ignition. I'd like to explain how it's done but without pictures its pretty tricky to do.

[thelockpickkid]

If your not in this line of work I would suggest you do not try to pull the lock out yourself, there are several things you can mess up, who knows, you may pull it out and mess something up, just to find out later that it was something simple and cheaper to fix than replacing the cylinder. When it comes to Toyota, and most other vehicles these days, there is no such thing really as cheap replacement parts, I don't want you to post on here later on in the week disgusted at yourself for making a big mistake. Not trying to be a jerk just looking out for the what if's for ya.

[globallockytoo]

This sounds exactly like a bent or broken wafer (tumbler). I suggest going to your locksmith and getting the cylinder picked to ACC, depressing the release pin and pulling the cylinder.

If you want to try it yourself and can locate the retainer, you could use a center punch and hammer to force the retainer in, but this will ruin your lock (can be repaired if not damaged too much).

[globallockytoo]

One more thought...

The ignition lock usually has a guide that the throat of the key must activate (like an auxiliary locking mechanism), when the key is inserted. If your key is worn, it could be that the throat of the key is not pressing on the lever enough to allow the plug to turn, in which case you need to replace the faulty cylinder or get a new original key cut to code that will have a slightly wider throat.

[thelockpickkid]

I would like to add to the above post, this is very plausible, seems Toyota has had some problems with this happening, I for one have an older Camry and my key is very wore out and sometimes sticks just like you describe.

[kloijm]

Wow... what great feedback. This is just the kind of forum with a lot of informed and helpful people that I love to come across.

Who knows, you may pull it out and mess something up, just to find out later that it was something simple and cheaper to fix than replacing the cylinder.

Solid reasoning! That's why I started here:

The ignition lock usually has a guide that the throat of the key must activate... If your key is worn, it could be that the throat of the key is not pressing on the lever enough... in which case you need to replace the faulty cylinder or get a new original key cut to code...

I would like to add to the above post, this is very plausible, seems Toyota has had some problems with this happening...

I got that suggestion (to have the dealer cut a new key from the VIN) elsewhere. It sounds like the 1st simple thing to ask and test in electronics, "Is it plugged in?" I went down to the dealer today and got a new key made from a tougher metal alloy cut for $13. I can point it towards me and see the 'thoat', as you refer to it, is much fatter than any of the 3 old copies (I have no original).

One problem though... I don't know if it's solved the problem. Intermittent symtoms, the plague of troubleshooting. My old key worked perfectly all day today. It didn't refuse to turn once. So all I can do now is use the new one and see if it continues to do so as the days go by.

As usual though, the converson at the dealer's parts counter was both entertaining and enlightening. They said those 'wafers', as you refer to them, are made of lead. And that graphite is the very thing to avoid using to lubricate them as it tends to cake to the lead just like the locksmith had told me on the phone. And that WD40 on top of things is definately a no no.

If you're not familiar with working on the interior of a car or not have any experience servicing ignition locks I'd leave this to a professional locksmith.

I've pulled apart a few doors and dashboards in the past. Not a whole lot, and not very recently. But give me decent instructions, or the factory repair manual and I can usually get the job done.

Let's see if this new key fends off the evil spirits (fingers crossed, pins in cylinder wafer demon doll).

Thanks again for all the great feedback folks.

[thelockpickkid]

They said they were made out of lead?? Thats a first for me but I don't know everything. Can anybody else on the forum confirm this?? It doesn't make sense to me, if they were made of lead they would wear out very quick I would think.

[kloijm]

... if they were made of lead they would wear out very quick I would think.

That was my response when the guy told me that. If true-ish... I'd think it'd have to be an alloy for some kind.

[ElAbogado]

They said they were made out of lead?? Thats a first for me but I don't know everything. Can anybody else on the forum confirm this?? It doesn't make sense to me, if they were made of lead they would wear out very quick I would think.

I've seen brass, plastic, and stamped metal, but never lead. Wouldn't hold up for one week if made from that, regardless of the antimony content. Just the scraping of the key would act like a file and change the dimensions in short order.

[globallockytoo]

Most auto lock cylinders use brass as the metal of choice for their wafers (disc tumblers) but a few use aluminium (aluminum for you Americans' )

because the actual cylinders are made from die cast aluminum, brass, being a self lubricating metal, tends to wear almost equally with aluminum but, aluminum is somewhat softer then brass (especially when it's die cast). This can cause brass wafers (disc tumblers) to create a channel or divet in the aluminum housing which potentially can allow a non-correct key to "accidentally" operate the lock.

For this reason it is considered a good practise to lubricate the cylinder with either powdered graphite or a teflon based lubricant like Tri-Flow, once every six months or so. This protects the lock and ensures a reasonable working key continually.

Of course, a good original key, usually cut to code from a locksmith, should be the choice product rather than a "dealers" key.