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Can anyone tell me about this ILCO key machine?

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
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Can anyone tell me about this ILCO key machine?

Postby Antique key maker » 13 Mar 2010 11:47

I have this ILCO key machine that I have been using. It says nothing of the model other than a model 10 I think.

Can anyone tell me about how old it is. Also, can someone tell me where, what kind, and how I can buy a new cutter wheel for it?

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Re: Can anyone tell me about this ILCO key machine?

Postby Antique key maker » 21 Mar 2010 12:01

I guess this must be really old and obsolete. Nobody has ever seen one of these?
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Re: Can anyone tell me about this ILCO key machine?

Postby eppiotic » 21 Mar 2010 12:25

Well the left side as you probably know is a crude duplicator, and the right side is a slotter.

You use the left side for your standard key copies and the right side for flat steel keys like you see used in safety deposit locks.

I think we have one in our storage room.
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Re: Can anyone tell me about this ILCO key machine?

Postby eppiotic » 21 Mar 2010 12:26

It just occurred to me you are using it. I thought you wanted to know what the heck it was lol.

I should read more carefully haha. I have no idea how old it is.
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Re: Can anyone tell me about this ILCO key machine?

Postby Antique key maker » 21 Mar 2010 21:01

That is funny crude duplicator on the right. This could be a 50-80 year old machine, was cutting keys back 80 years ago much more crude?
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Re: Can anyone tell me about this ILCO key machine?

Postby WOT » 28 Mar 2010 2:17

My guess is an old school code machine. There's really no need for double-beveled cutting wheel for a trace duplication, but, it's highly desirable for code cutting using depth keys.
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Re: Can anyone tell me about this ILCO key machine?

Postby zeke79 » 28 Mar 2010 8:09

For cutting wheels you'll need to take your existing cutter off and with a micrometer measure the thickness of the cutter and either the inside diameter of the hole in the cutting wheel or the outside diameter of the shaft it mounts to on the machine. The last thing we will need is the diameter of the cutting wheel itself. Make these measurements as accurately as you can with a micrometer. Measure in inches please ;-)

If you can get us this info we can likely point you in the direction of some cutting wheels that will work.
For the best book out there on high security locks and their operation, take a look at amazon.com for High-Security Mechanical Locks An Encyclopedic Reference. Written by our very own site member Greyman! A true 5 Star read!!
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Re: Can anyone tell me about this ILCO key machine?

Postby Raymond » 28 Mar 2010 18:29

I have looked in my old catalogs and could not find a representation of this machine. My catalogs only go back to the 60's. I looked at your picture again and noticed that the thumb knob on the left is different than the one on the flat steel vise. Is there a name on the one on the right. The "Ilco" on the left might have been an addition from a later time.

If you change the cutter you must make a new guide that matches exactly to get good duplication.
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Re: Can anyone tell me about this ILCO key machine?

Postby zeke79 » 28 Mar 2010 19:15

Raymond wrote:I have looked in my old catalogs and could not find a representation of this machine. My catalogs only go back to the 60's. I looked at your picture again and noticed that the thumb knob on the left is different than the one on the flat steel vise. Is there a name on the one on the right. The "Ilco" on the left might have been an addition from a later time.

If you change the cutter you must make a new guide that matches exactly to get good duplication.



As long as the cutter is the same width or thickness and the same outside diameter with the same mounting hole size there would be no need to change the cutter guide. Some cutters can be interchanged between machines and work just as the factory original for the machine but they are not advertised as fitting different brand machines.

Why do you think a guide modification would be needed if all dimensions on the cutter are the same Raymond? I am only asking as I could easily be wrong but I have used cutters from other machines on my old duplicator and things worked out fine with just a bit of calibration due to differences in cutter wear between one cutter and the other.
For the best book out there on high security locks and their operation, take a look at amazon.com for High-Security Mechanical Locks An Encyclopedic Reference. Written by our very own site member Greyman! A true 5 Star read!!
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Re: Can anyone tell me about this ILCO key machine?

Postby Raymond » 30 Mar 2010 0:06

Howdy Zeke79,

I believe that one of the most common and frustrating duplication errors comes from SPACING and not depth adjustment. This maching is using a double angle cutter as designed for general duplication and depth key code cutting. If the guide is too small the cuts will be too wide and vise-versa. If he put on a single angle cutter it would not cut the ramp on one side. Most file cutters are slightly rounded on the point. The original tracing point should match this exactly. If he switches to a milling cutter with sharp edges, the rounded guide will cause bad space cuts and rough ramps on one side.

The diameter is the easiest variation to fix by simply adjusting the depth screw. I think you answered part of your own question. If you used simularly shaped new cutters on your old machine and they worked well then the angle and shape of the cutter was probably designed for that general type of duplicator. Several companies made the cutter wheels and it is the same as buying after market car parts. The parts are engineered to fit and match. I'm certainly not saying that they always do match but that is the intentional design objective.

I once changed from a double angle cutter on an old Ilco Minute machine to an HPC Sharpie narrow cutter with a flat side. After I made a new gauge and sped up the pulley it worked perfectly. I had very little trouble with rough ramp stepping. But, I had to correct the guide tip.

If the guide angle is good and the spacing is still off he may have to use shim washers on the cutter shaft.

This is not a subject I have learned from any accredited instructional source. It reprersents only my opinion and is based on many years of experience.
Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool. Wisdom is not just in determining how to do something, but also includes determining whether it should be done at all.
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Re: Can anyone tell me about this ILCO key machine?

Postby Antique key maker » 1 Apr 2010 20:50

I am wrong, it is not an Ilco key machine. IT says KEIL lock company machine.

Does anyone know anything about KEIL lock company?
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Re: Can anyone tell me about this ILCO key machine?

Postby yng_pick » 1 Apr 2010 21:52

Looks a bit like the Keil 15 to me

http://www.simon-says.net/lds2/keil-h/keil-h.htm
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Re: Can anyone tell me about this ILCO key machine?

Postby Antique key maker » 1 Apr 2010 23:59

yng_pick wrote:Looks a bit like the Keil 15 to me

http://www.simon-says.net/lds2/keil-h/keil-h.htm


That is it the Keil 10 1/2, it actually says model 10 1/2 on the rear. Any idea what year this key machine was first made?
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