Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

unautherized use?

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

unautherized use?

Postby RJZinda » 24 Mar 2010 2:48

I'm a certified locksmith and I'm kind of suprised to find a site like this. How do you screen users and keep trade secrets. Don't get me wrong there is a lot I need to learn about picking, just concerned about the info in this site falling into the wrong hands...
RJZinda
 
Posts: 1
Joined: 21 Mar 2010 22:46

Re: unautherized use?

Postby ChemicalRobot » 24 Mar 2010 2:57

If someone wanted to get lock-picking information for malicious motives, then they are going to either way. The best you can really do is promote good, legal, behavior. That's what this site seems to strive to do. Also, usually those that are trying to do something illegal seem to stick out like a sore thumb in these forums.
Image
Are you a lockpicking enthusiast in the Oregon area? If so, send me a message. Maybe we could collaborate. - Evan
ChemicalRobot
 
Posts: 80
Joined: 9 Jan 2010 19:19
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: unautherized use?

Postby Unsightly Picks » 24 Mar 2010 3:20

This is kind of a canned cheesy metaphor, but it gets the point across. Why sell handguns if they are commonly used to kill people? (fyi i am pro guns) for the most part the same ethical questions arise.
Unsightly Picks
 
Posts: 42
Joined: 25 Feb 2010 13:20

Re: unautherized use?

Postby rontgens » 24 Mar 2010 7:30

Gun sport - Lock sport.
Gun kill - Lock steal.
rontgens
 
Posts: 143
Joined: 5 Nov 2007 3:13
Location: Sheffield UK

Re: unautherized use?

Postby Squelchtone » 24 Mar 2010 8:05

RJZinda wrote:I'm a certified locksmith and I'm kind of surprised to find a site like this. How do you screen users and keep trade secrets. Don't get me wrong there is a lot I need to learn about picking, just concerned about the info in this site falling into the wrong hands...


The problem with the old time locksmith mentality is that it doesn't take into consideration the proliferation of the internet over the last 25 years. Before this forum there was alt.locksmithing where a lot of the same stuff could be read. I have an issue with "trade secrets" because they're not really anything that should be secret. Bad guys will always find out way of how to defeat a lock, an alarm, a car door, etc. Trade Secrets and the guild mentality of some locksmiths keep facts away from the consumer, and I feel has set the entire industry back from being able to innovate. When a bunch of us on this site picked Medeco for the first time a few years ago, we all strolled into our local locksmiths to show them, and they were so brainwashed by the advertising literature and by their sales reps that Medeco couldn't be picked, they would say we either rigged the locks, or the side bar wasn't installed, or not all the pins were there.

Sharing information and working with manufacturers to make locks more difficult to pick or bypass is the only way to go. It's also a huge disservice to consumers to sell them an old Kwikset or big box store Schlage and put BHMA Grade 1 or 2 stampings on it or the words "Maximum Security" or "High Security Deadbolt" The lock manufacturers need to take a more realistic approach in their marketing and to choose their words carefully when they're stamping works like high security on their boxes. Since locksmiths are at the front lines when it comes to educating the consumer and selling to them, being as forthcoming as possible is a good thing.

As far as this site, it isn't here to teach bored suburban teenagers how to pick locks and steal Cokes out of a soda machine. We have a pretty good ear for new users and try our best to weed out people asking certain questions that raise flags. There are also layers of security on this site where a new user cannot go into the Automotive and High Security lock areas and read and learn. If someone comes here and reads about how to rake open a wafer lock on a file cabinet or desk drawer, then I don't see the problem with us providing information, I see the problem with the company who thought it was a good idea to put a crappy lock on their product that a teenager with a paperclip can rake open in 20 seconds. (Please note that if someone came in and said, I need to break into a drawer at work because there's some cash in there and I want it, we would NOT help them, no matter how simple of a lock is on that drawer/door/toolbox,etc) People take locks for granted, and don't realize just how shoddy most of them are. Most locks (especially in the US) provide nothing more but a false sense of security and only serve to keep honest people honest.

I especially take issue with Master Lock and their laminated padlocks. It's great that they show advertisements of the lock taking a bullet and stay locked, but never mention the 4 pin mechanism that can be picked open in less than 10 seconds.

Mostly though, we pick for fun because we see locks as a fun and challenging puzzle. We aren't just here as a 1-800-ask-a-locksmith-question hot line for someone who needs to get into a lock. I'm just making that clear. We are also not here to take jobs from locksmiths, in fact we quite often tell someone, sorry we can't help, please call a professional locksmith.

Squelchtone
Image
User avatar
Squelchtone
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11308
Joined: 11 May 2006 0:41
Location: right behind you.

Re: unautherized use?

Postby LocksmithArmy » 24 Mar 2010 8:38

wooow
you made me late for work squelch

I am a locksmith and I have to say these guys are the real deal, what squelchtone says is 100% honest. I have seen tons of people get turned away because of questions like "how do i get through this door, i rented the room and the balcony dore is locked" or they show a pic of a tough lock... in use... and ask how to pick it... why would we tell you, it could be the lock on ur local bank in podunk town and the guys here do a good jub not helping people like that... not saying the "bad guy" couldnt search it himself and get the info... but again he wouldnt get any High Security info here, just the basics he can learn from youtube.
now... I really am late for work, gotta run... or drive... fast
LocksmithArmy
 
Posts: 989
Joined: 25 Jun 2009 22:14

Re: unautherized use?

Postby raimundo » 24 Mar 2010 9:37

rontgens, you missed one,... penis=rapist
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
raimundo
 
Posts: 7130
Joined: 21 Apr 2004 9:02
Location: Minnneapolis

Re: unautherized use?

Postby Josh K » 24 Mar 2010 18:24

raimundo wrote:rontgens, you missed one,... penis=rapist


+1. :P

Anything can be found on the internet. Want to know how to make bombs? Check out a couple of FreeNet sites.

By consolidating the information in an atmosphere that promotes the better uses of this hobby you try to remove the desire to look for it in less structured places.
Josh K
 
Posts: 555
Joined: 9 Dec 2009 22:32
Location: New York City

Re: unautherized use?

Postby thelockpickkid » 24 Mar 2010 19:07

I am a locksmith as well, to the original poster, if you are worried about trade info leaking, then don't post, log out. I get real tired of locksmiths thinking that the info that they know makes them better than everybody else, and that just because they know it, nobody else does! I have seen so many scam jobs by legitamate lockie's they far outnumber the actual scammers. For instance, going to do a lockout on a Kwikset, and drilling the lock without trying to pick just so they can make more money. The info found here, most of it, as said before, can be found anywhere on the net. We have good info here, if you don't like it then don't say anything. It's people like you who regulate us part timers out of money, wanting to seal all the info up, or organize big locksmith associations and charge tons of money to join just so we can listen to you all bellyache about how good you are. We have pickers here who would put any locksmith I know to shame. End of Rant.
Shoot first ask questions later! Thelockpickkid
thelockpickkid
 
Posts: 401
Joined: 27 Nov 2007 12:04
Location: Western, Oregon

Re: unautherized use?

Postby Raymond » 24 Mar 2010 21:59

Even way back in the 60's the "Anarchist's Cookbook" would teach anything you wanted to know that most people shouldnt. Lock picking, identity theft, bomb making, protesting, etc. Our freedom of speech doctrine provides the open forum. Only the internet busted the locksmith only restriction.

Note my signature statement.
Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool. Wisdom is not just in determining how to do something, but also includes determining whether it should be done at all.
Raymond
 
Posts: 1359
Joined: 18 Jan 2004 23:34
Location: Far West Texas

Re: unautherized use?

Postby WOT » 28 Mar 2010 2:13

RJZinda wrote:I'm a certified locksmith and I'm kind of suprised to find a site like this. How do you screen users and keep trade secrets. Don't get me wrong there is a lot I need to learn about picking, just concerned about the info in this site falling into the wrong hands...


How should YOU keep trade secret? If you have something truly unique to your company that maintains your company's competency then hire an intellectual property attorney.

It can be done and feds might care if you're significant enough, such as the Coca Cola Company who's employees were charged with conspiracy charge after trying to leak its trade secret to Pepsi.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/23/news/ne ... /index.htm

Telling people to keep anything they learned to themselves is like telling students "don't leak anything you learned in my class"
WOT
 
Posts: 750
Joined: 9 Nov 2006 21:44
Location: (SFIC) USA


Return to Got Questions? - Ask Beginner Hobby Lockpicking Questions Here

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests