Antique Combination Brass Padlock 9 Tumbler !

[Vintage]

Hey guys,

I have this family brass combination padlock with 9 tumblers. The combination has been long long forgotten.

I'm hoping to find a way to discover the combination, not because it is locking anything, but for the information that the password reveals. i.e. the password itself.

Each tumbler has the entire alphabet on it, as well as a star. There are 9 wheels.

Does anyone have any idea how to crack the combination!

Thanks.

[pin_pusher]

that's like 9 to the 27th power possible combinations...(if i thought about math hard enough)...i can't stray far from admiring the lock; however, i cannot help much more than say "keep spinning those dials". if there's no serial number or company to contact, i'm not sure this would be on record. plus the age of the lock would tell me no one has known the code for a while. what a great puzzle though. all i could find in researching was similar locks from late 1800's to late 60's, some of the companies don't exist any longer. let us know how it goes...or fill us in on some of the locks history.

[Squelchtone]

There are similar locks on this site, http://www.antique-padlocks.com/comb.htm,some of the pics on that site show how they look inside. This may allow you a better understanding how they operate and what is needed to happen with the wheels in order to open the lock. Perhaps you can find an exploit which will allow you to tell if you are on the correct letter of the combination. How loose are the wheels? can you stick a thin strip of coke can inbetween them? can you shine a flashlight from behind the lock and turn the wheels to see any differences?

Very interesting lock, thanks for sharing!

Squelchtone

ps. Check your Messages please

[Ortin468]

Wow that's a sweet lock!

Start spinning those dials..... 1000 combo's a day... maybe a year later...


I just had an ultrasound on my heart today.. What incredible detail... Now I'm wondering if one used the ultrasound machine, how much detail would it show and could it aid in picking or safe cracking ?

Anyone here have access to one at work ?

[Vintage]

Hello =)

Thankyou for the replies.

There are no markings on the lock of any kind.

There is a very slight gap between tumblers if all tumblers are bunched... enough for a strip of coke can metal perhaps although I have not tested this yet.

Inspecting with a torch shows that there does appear to be some kind of 'teeth' to each tumbler... very similar to what is shown here:

[Wizer]

Have you tried sesamopen?

[nathane]

What a great find!

If you pull outward, how much play is there? I would suggest that you should be able to find a "binding" disc. You should be able to work from feel to free up each identified binding disc as you progress through until you get it open. With 9 discs, it may take some time to get the feeling down to determine which disc is binding first, second, third and when they're set properly, but as you progress it should get a bit easier.

I've done this with a lock that uses a similar mechanism, but in that case it was just a cylinder and didn't have the padlock bar portion.

Good luck - beautiful lock!

[raimundo]

your lock has nine tumblers but it also has only four notches on the shackle. Its these four notches that hold it locked, (Im using the photo for a true copy of the mechanism.
Forget about the outer gear like teeth on the tumbers, these are only for combination change which you will not need to know about until the lock is open.
tie a rope through the shackle to a stationary point, like a doorknob, and put slight pull on the shackle while testing the state of each tumbler. Is the tumbler tight or loose
each of the four notches on the shackle has two tumblers that rotate through it until the gate notch on the inside of the hole in the middle of the tumblers lets the teeth between the notches pass.
this means that only four tumblers are engaged in stopping those teeth from passing until all four 'primary' tumblers are set to allow the tooth/fence to pass, when this happens you work the other tumblers.
your lock is different from the one in the photo because the shackle does not have the notches, but the bolt that holds the shackle in has them and pulling on the shackle presses a lever that pushes on that bolt.
While keeping a constant pull on the rope that tensions the shackle, do not over pressure it, you still need to move those tumblers.
stroke the entire tumbler pack to the right side without the rope tension then watch closely when you reapply the tension, do any of the tumbler jerk more significantly when tension is applied, then do the same in the opposite direction, any tumbler that is reacting more than the others is the first one to work out, you will have to try each position of its alphabet and learn if that position gives more wiggle room, if you have the notch in a gate, the wiggle up and down the alphabet will probably be greater. chart any results you get as you will want this data as you build toward opening it.
I dont know the specifics of this lock, only the general type of mechanism, some are actually simple to open if you try the right testing on it and yours may be one of them
notice that one end of the shackle is about 2mm from that tumbers coined edge, while the opposite is right on the coined edge of its tumbler, your photo does not show both ends of the tumbler pack so its hard to tell if that shackle just comes off or if it swings, if it swings, one end would be cut to let it pass, and the other not, The bolt is the notched rod that runs through the tumbler pack, and its operated by a pull on the shackle, if the shackle swings open rather than comes off at both ends, then the bolt would be opposite the swinging end, but the pressure on the bolt may be transmitted by the swinging end, you are most likely to get one of the end tumblers first, that would be
about using a beer can to make a shim, this is not the best idea, because that is made of aluminum and aluminum is an abrasive metal, it will have friction even if you smooth the cut edges with sand paper,
try the tiny pieces of metal strip that come in those rectangular antishoplifting plastic capusules that are inside CD packaging
this is a very thin piece of metal and not an abrasive metal. you could cut a 45 degree point on this and then insert it into the gap between the tumblers, then ink a mark on the shim to show the depth, You can mask off the brass tumblers from this ink with a thin piece of paper so as not to interfer with the antique patina of the metal. sort out all the positions on the tumbler and write down any position that allows the 45 degree angle to drop in deeper.
thats all I've got right now, consider it some good suggestions, but keep your mind open while trying them out, you may learn something I don't know. And let us know when You open it,
Don't destroy this lock, but if necessary try to look up a patent for it.

[Vintage]

Thankyou raimundo!

You guys are starting to give me hope that, it is indeed possible to crack this combination.

I've taken some more pictures which hopefully supply better information about the lock.

Perhaps this extra information will allow you narrow down your suggestions?

There is definitely greater and less tension during tumbler rotation, especially if the two ends are pulled apart with moderate pressure.

I believe the end without the pivot point, slides out, allowing the main arm to rotate open when the correct combination is inputted.

Pics:




Please not this kind of gap is only possible in the middle and is much smaller at the edges.

[raimundo]

First, my long post was originally confused with the photos of the second lock, and after I noticed that they were distinct, I went on to talk about the OP's lock,
After seening the photos from other directions, I can see that the hasp is a swinging one, not removable,
Looking at the new photos, I suspect that the round circles on the end of the lock may be the place to apply tension into the mechanism.
Also, about this and other recent posts, I am not illiterate, nor are the apparent typos all my doing, the computer or the internet causes some of these changes.
though admittedly I do not proof read things I write, once they are entered on the keyboard, I am no longer interested in them.
you have a nice gap between the tumblers, if this gap can be stroked to one end then the tension pressed against it, you should be able to determine which letter has the
gate associated with it. Start with the end nearest to the tension button (round lines on the end or Im mistaken) turn it one letter at a time stroke all the wheels towards one end and press the tension button, if there is no gate at that letter, the whole pack will be pushed back against the stroke, when you reach the letter with the gate, pressing the tension button will push the tumbler pack back but not the tumbler with the gate, write this letter down, and leave that tumbler in that place and do this all again while testing all the letters of the next wheel in the pack.

If that dosent work it out, test the shim and the possiblilities it will start to suggest to you. you may even see something in that gap if you get light to strike inside it at the right angle.

Good luck

[HirosStorageUnit]

wow that is amazing. I wish I still had all the old locks my father had when I was a kid.