Question About Key Switches

[danjfrank]

Hello, I'm very new here. Not actually a member of the locksmithing trade. I'm a writer, and I'm coming up against a frustrating barrier that my research, so far, has had no success in resolving.

My problem is regarding key switches, specifically those you'd find on an elevator. I'm trying to figure out: How are these picked? Is the method anything like that of a regular lock? Do they have pins? The mechanism looks very different, as do the keys, so I imagine not, but that leaves the question: If not the normal way, then how?

Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[maintenanceguy]

Different elevators use different key switches.

The fire department key switch inside the car that lets the fire department take control of an elevator is most often a wafer lock, one of the less expensive keyed locks and one of the easiest to pick. I've also seen other types of locks used but not as often.

If you're talking about the key used to open an elevator door from the outside, there are lots of different styles of "keys" and they are nothing like other locks. The "keys" are just tools that operate a latching mechanism inside the elevator door to release the door. I wouldn't really consider these to be locks. Most offer no real security except that most people don't know how to do it. There are some elevators that are fitted with more secure mechanisms and are sometimes referred to as "public housing" type.

[UEDan]

I don't know what you have but, I've only seen a regular pin tumbler key and tubular locks inside of elevators.
Can you describe the lock?

[danjfrank]

Thanks so much for your prompt replies!!

I'm thinking of the circular type of key switches... like this...

http://www.gatedepot.com/prod_accessory ... switch.htm

Is that a tubular lock? How would one pick that? Would a relatively inexperienced person who had only really practiced scrubbing pins on basic door locks be able to?

After my first post I noticed that a lot of elevator key switches actually just use little, relatively normal looking, keys. I imagine that's a "wafer lock?" If the circular locks are more difficult, I may settle on this version, but I'm definitely curious how the circular version works.

Thanks again!

[EmCee]

Hi danjfrank

I don't want to insult you but the way you are phrasing questions is tipping the scales of suspicion. If you are a writer you must be skilled in research, especially if you are concerned about making your words plausible to the extent, in this case, that you want details of how to pick a specific lock rather than glossing over it or getting it completely wrong (as is the case in most books and films - which to be honest is not a great problem given 'poetic license' and the fact that most people won't know enough to tell whether it is correct or not).

Of course this site could be part of your research, but you say you have hit a 'frustrating barrier', and surely frustration implies that you have been searching for a long time with no success - and yet there is a lot of easily found information about these locks and opening methods.

Having said that, in brief answer to some of your questions - yes, tubular locks have pins; generally speaking they are harder to open than wafer locks; it is unlikely someone who had previously only scrubbed open a 'basic door lock' would be able to open a tubular lock (it can't be scrubbed and it would be time-consuming and difficult without specialist tools). If elevators have wafer locks I'd stick with them, since picking a tubular lock would really need premeditation, preparation and time.

Cheers...

[illusion]

The perception of how secure this lock is by your readers should reflect how they perceive the security of the building that it is in, as a whole.

Seeing a 20 lever safe lock used to secure a small grocery store seems overkill to a lock enthusiast and if you describe it in any detail to the reader, they are likely going to think it a little odd too, likewise explaining that a simple Kwikset or Mila pin cylinder secures the main door to a bank would also look odd.
Should it be possible, take a look at a few elevators in the types of buildings you will write about, take a few quick photos, crop everything out except the cylinder itself and I'm sure you could post them up here for further advice.

Personally, I wouldn't go into much detail unless it is a high security/governmental elevator - I'd stick to a pin cylinder since they tend to be used an awful lot and this sticks with the skill level of the picker within your story... Unless it is somehow vital to the story itself, such extensive detail may bore the reader, possibly.

[maintenanceguy]

These are tubular locks and are pretty easy to pick. There are tools that make picking these almost automatic and work amazingly well. Google tubular lock pick.

Without this $100 tool, they still pick easily. All you need is a special tool to turn the lock and anything to push the exposed pins in. The special tool can be made out of just about any flat piece of metal in 10 minutes with a file.

[raimundo]

what maintainence said, but also

elevators often have this tubular key lock, (ace lock or aceII) I have also seen best sfic used and medeco sfic

the photo you show appears to be a type that can only be open with the key in and the key is not meant to be removed except in the same state as it was first in before the key is inserted,
if it had more notches on the outer edge of the circle it may have been a removeable key that can change the state of the switch.

This type of ace lock could in some cases be picked by pushing a bic biro pen barrel into the lock and working it in a very specific twistalittle and push in hard motion.

that last method would work very well in a fiction situation especially if the protagonist is not supposed to be a skilled lockpicker but an amateur who had read about this particuliar mcgyver. antagonists always use the electropick power tool because they always come equiped with big gear and battle rattle.

[danjfrank]

Thank you all for your input! I really appreciate it.

Yeah, after my second post I re-read the first two responses and then I googled tubular lock, which is a term I hadn't come across yet despite spending a lot of time reading about key switches. Sure enough, what I was thinking of was absolutely a tubular lock, so that got me a ton of information (such as the lockpicks you guys have described, videos of people picking them with improvised tools, etc.)

So now I just need to decide if I want to go with the tubular lock, and make everything more complicated, or just go with a wafer lock. The situation is such that the character is using extremely improvised tools with no advance preparation... which means I don't really know how they would turn the lock even if they were able to successfully set all the pins. Seems like you really need, at minimum, some sort of improvised wrench, right?

So, I'll probably have to go with a wafer lock.

PS: My apologies if I seemed suspicious to any of you. I really am doing this for a novel I'm writing. It's a very minor scene, and a quandary I didn't even really foresee until I was in the middle of said scene. The "frustrating barrier" was maybe half an hour poking around the internet before I found this site. I assure you, if my novel featured lockpicking in any really significant way, I'd learn how to do it myself and probably ask my questions of a locksmith in person.

[danjfrank]

Alternatively, I can read all of the responses before I post. In which case I'd have seen that Raimundo gave me an AWESOME suggestion about using a pen. Are you serious? Can that really work?

The building/elevator in question is old and semi-abandoned, but with very slightly better security than you might expect for an old abandoned building.

[WolfSpring]

I think along with some of these responses we should post links to good lawyers who specialize in burglary, theft and criminal trespassing?

Almost any lock you can find anywhere can be found with a methosd to open them. They've got 12 year old kids on you tube giving lessons now it's crazy, if I'd have had this kind of knowledge as a kid available on the internet I'd have gone to prison by the time I was 18.

[maintenanceguy]

improvising the tools to pick a tubular lock is not all that difficult. Something durable and reusable would take some work but a bent paperclip would work one time, an Allen wrench of the right size will fit in the notch in the center of the lock and can be used to turn the lock. In fact, since the pins of a tubular lock are exposed, it's probably easier to pick with improvised tools than a wafer lock or pin tumbler lock.

For your novel, one interesting aspect (looking to build tension in the scene?) of a tubular lock is that a tubular lock needs to be picked several times to turn all the way. If a tubular lock has 8 pins, and you pick it and rotate it 1/8 of a turn, the lock will relock when the pins line up again. You have to pick the lock twice to get a quarter rotation and have to pick it 4 times to get a half rotation.

The commercially available tools don't require this as they keep the pins in the correct position once the lock is picked but improvised tools would require picking the lock several times.

[raimundo]

as maintainence said in the previous post, picking with most tools will get you one eighth of a turn, some kinds of these locks tubular, (not switchs)are actually operating to turn a screw that has more than one 360 turn to open. however the commercial pick for this lock will simply impression the key and mimic it, it also decodes the lock so a key can be made.
the same is true of the bic biro, which needs no extra tension, as it grips the stem of the lock and impressions a key.

[WolfSpring]

Be carefull with that eigth of a turn stuff on some tubular locks. My first tubular lock try was a tension wrench and a pick and i picked it first try but as I turned the first pin stack came out the key hole and almost busted the lock, by shear luck i got it fixed, had to file the nipple off one of the keys to get it back to the lock position though.

[raimundo]

that does happen on some of these, I usually regard the locks that can drop a pinstack if the keyway is not plugged up with key. It dosent happen on all ace type locks.

I also have a U lock that has no notch in the outer diameter of the keyhole, I suppose the holdin must be somewhere on the stem, but no blanks could be found for it, so making the key of the usual ace blank the notch had to be filed off, this leaves me with a key that can operate the lock, but also can be removed at any point in the rotation, and you must remember to reinsert the key with the key aligning with the exact position it came out in. Its not a lock that can be lent to someone for use if they don't understand the lock well.