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What type of locks are these?

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
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Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

What type of locks are these?

Postby xkayosx » 30 Nov 2010 16:39

I was given a large selection of locks and dont know what type of lock or how to pick them! I would like to know what type of keys as well! If you have any idea let me know.

First Lock:
Image

Image

Image

Second Lock:
Image

Third Lock:
Image

Image

Image

Fourth Lock:
Image

Thankx -xkayosx-
xkayosx
 
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Re: What type of locks are these?

Postby globallockytoo » 30 Nov 2010 17:25

1st lock - Original US Post letterbox lock sold in late 19th century.
2nd lock - Steemer trunk type locks
3rd lock - Squire Padlock
4th Lock - Public Telephone box lock

(I think)
One One was a race horse, one one won one race, one two was a racehorse, one two won one too.

Disclaimer: Do not pull tag off mattress. Not responsible for legal advice while laughing.
Bilock - The Original True Bump Proof Pin Tumbler System!
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Re: What type of locks are these?

Postby illusion » 1 Dec 2010 7:01

1st - Don't know exactly. I suspect a thin 'key' is inserted into the gap at the bottom and this separates the latch from the padlock hasp and opens the lock. I haven't seen such a lock before however so don't take this as anything other than speculation. I expect these were used more like the modern day zip-tie 'locks', in that did not provide much security but could have highlighted that the object it secured closed had been tampered with. Perhaps they were used to secure the tops of postal mail bags to ensure the contents had not been tampered with?

2nd - Possibly a lever lock, or a warded lock - both opened by various methods, the cheapest being wires - stickied threads will give you some idea.

3rd - I believe that this is a warded padlock, opened easily if so - see the stickied thread about these.

4th - TuBAR lock made by Chicago Locks. They can be picked, although I haven't been able to do so using hand tools - The lock has two sidebars and uses 8 single pins, not the pairs of pins seen in many other pin tumbler locks. The pins have deep grooves cut into the sides that the sidebar slots into. To deter picking the pins have very strong springs and shallower, 'false notches' cut into the side of the pins to confuse picking.

HTH. :)
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Re: What type of locks are these?

Postby illusion » 1 Dec 2010 7:17

I should add that with the TuBAR lock, the sidebars are prevented from turning by the protrusion of two crescent shaped pieces of brass. The crescents 'sink' into the deep groves on the pins also called the gates (better terminology really) and the sidebars can then withdraw into the plug and allow the cylinder to turn. Using a piece of brickstrap or thin steel stock, it would not be impossible to devise a similar tool to a tubular lock pick, albeit a flat one - however due to the strong springs securing the sliders whilst allowing them to be manipulated may be difficult.
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Re: What type of locks are these?

Postby raimundo » 1 Dec 2010 8:10

thats a pushkey lock, it has lever tumblers, similiar to the miller type of six or eight lever locks seen on antique lock sites which often have a ward plate in amoung the levers or dividing the levers from the bolt throw. so I would regard any apparent lever that is immovable as a ward plate in these postal locks.

the Steamer trunk locks as global identifies them are interesting, with thier shrouded shackles, I haven't seen these type before.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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Re: What type of locks are these?

Postby illusion » 1 Dec 2010 8:19

I took a few quick photos of a TuBAR key to give you an idea of how they look and how the bitting interacts with the pins.

Image

Image

Image

These photos, miiiiigggght be a little big... :? :lol:
illusion
 
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Re: What type of locks are these?

Postby illusion » 1 Dec 2010 8:26

Oh you absolute star raimundo!

A bit of googling threw up a patent which has a diagram showing the mechanism.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=V2NUAAAAEBAJ&printsec=description&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

Old locks are not my area of knowledge and I'm glad I learnt something new today, fascinating. Thanks again raimundo. :)
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Re: What type of locks are these?

Postby illusion » 1 Dec 2010 8:42

Wish I could edit my posts or I'd add this in:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=Z_EtAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA2&dq=chicago+lock+company&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

It would seem the idea of a sputnik-esque pick similar to a tubular pick has already been patented. I expect it would be possible to replicate this, in fact I may have to give it a try sometime soon. :)
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Re: What type of locks are these?

Postby raimundo » 1 Dec 2010 10:46

sliders for the tubar lock have to have the shafts thinned to pass the cuts on the edges of the key and the place where two pins pass through the hole in the key before it can turn.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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Re: What type of locks are these?

Postby illusion » 1 Dec 2010 11:05

Agreed for the edge of the key. :)

I'm not sure they would have to be thinner for the place where the hole on the key sits. There aren't pins that sink into the hole, although the middle top and bottom teeth of the keyway do line up with with this hole when the key is fully inserted. I'm not sure why the hole is there in honesty, I can't see how it is required, at least in the TuBAR locks that I have.
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Re: What type of locks are these?

Postby Raymond » 1 Dec 2010 21:33

The second group of locks are also Postal locks. They were designed to lock the grommets on big mail bags closed during shipping. They a full lever locks with about 4 levers, if I remember correctly. The key causes the bolt to rotate open with a part of the bolt coming up into the cutout on the case. Then when you push the lock onto the ring the act of pushing swivels the bolt closed. With the bolt closed all the levers spring free and the lock is locked.

Isn't the third lock a Slaymaker? It is a simple warded lock with one spring bar locking the long side of the shackle.
Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool. Wisdom is not just in determining how to do something, but also includes determining whether it should be done at all.
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Re: What type of locks are these?

Postby raimundo » 2 Dec 2010 9:48

thanks for that on the snap closed mail bag locks

and yes that is a slaymaker lock and key.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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Re: What type of locks are these?

Postby datagram » 3 Dec 2010 13:28

Some more info on the TuBAR can be found here:

http://lockwiki.com/index.php/Tubar

To pick them you'd likely need to fashion a custom tool. It's possible to open with pin-tumbler picks, but it will be difficult due to the false gates on each pin.

dg
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