Weird Lock

[ric2b]

Hi there. I recently aquired a turn cylinder lock, kind of like this one.
It is quite easy to pick, except it won't open. I can rotate the lock as many times as i want (obviously having to pick it for each turn, i gave up after about 8 turns) but it won't open. With the key or the turning thing on the other side it only takes 2 or 3 turns to completly lock or unlock it. It was a fairly cheap lock, so I wasn't expecting this kind of, apparently, high security. Never found something like this, if someone can give some information on what actualy happens inside the lock and how to open it via lockpicking I would be very grateful

[Solomon]

It's because the cam is engaged by the thumb turn on the other side, you need to pick up the cam in order to rotate it. I dunno if we're allowed to discuss how but it's not high security, just a different kind of mechanism.

From a hobbyist standpoint it doesn't matter if you engage the cam or not, you picked the cylinder which is what counts.

[ric2b]

Yes, what you say is true, i did pick the lock so that should be enough. But I can't help myself not tasting defeat, though

[ric2b]

If someone could give me some more information I would be very grateful

[ric2b]

I did some searching and found out how to engage the cam and already know how the mechanism works. Just don't know what i can use to reach the end of the cylinder and the cam other then the original key. I don't have any bump keys or anything of sorts, any suggestions?

[Solomon]

Just use a hook or a piece of wire. It's easy enough to figure out, although you sometimes have to push quite tight against the cam to stay hooked into it properly... in this case you might find it helpful to use a tension wrench to turn the plug, that way you don't risk accidentally bending your pick (if that's what you decide to use).

[ric2b]

I guess whatever I can find that looks the closest to a clean key is the best, right?

[mhole]

A 999 cut key (ie: a bump key) works well for this.

[ric2b]

I am familiar with bump keys, but I don't have any. I live in Portugal so it's hard for me to find a site that can ship to here . Just so i'm sure, what I need to do is:
1-unlock the cylinder
2-insert something in the lock that can reach the end and turn in, kinda like the tip of the key in this picture, right?

[illusion]

I've previously just used the unbent end of whatever tension wrench I happen to be using at the time. You can use thin spring-steel 'piano wire' to make quite nice turners but they're kinda mega ott if you aren't going to use them as a source of income doing lock-outs etc...

[Solomon]

Like I said, just use a pick or a length of wire. Once picked, turn the plug just a few degrees and push it into the back of the keyway while turning the plug and it'll pick the cam up at some point. You could file down a blank or spare key so you're left with just the spine and use that, but it's not really necessary.

[EmCee]

It is sometimes hard to understand how the site policy about what can and cannot be discussed actually works. A new member asks about a car, even a relatively trivial question, and the thread is locked because auto is an advanced topic (and I know and accept the reasons). One poster asks about opening a trapdoor to a roof of a new building he's acquired and gets jumped on; another says there's a trapdoor in a house he bought and is helped with answers (no, it's not really a 'lock' in that case, but it is 'in use').

In this post (no offence to you ric2b, I'm just using your post as an example) someone says they have 'acquired' a new lock and...

a) shows a picture...not of 'the lock' but an image from a website of a 'similar' lock

b) says it has been picked several times but won't 'open'...as Solomon says, if picking as a hobby then turning the plug is the success

c) says that when using the key or thumbturn it 'only takes 2 or 3 turns to completely lock or unlock it'...if the key or thumbturn is turned 360deg on that lock the cam will turn 360deg...the only way it would take two/three turns to 'completely' lock/unlock it would be if it was in a door and had to be turned once to operate the latch and another time or two to deadlock/secure the MPL etc.

So, based on that, best case is that it is the poster's own lock installed in their own door...worst case is that....

Why do some people get jumped on with the 'don't pick locks that are in use' spiel, while others have their questions answered?

Cheers...

[ric2b]

It is sometimes hard to understand how the site policy about what can and cannot be discussed actually works. A new member asks about a car, even a relatively trivial question, and the thread is locked because auto is an advanced topic (and I know and accept the reasons). One poster asks about opening a trapdoor to a roof of a new building he's acquired and gets jumped on; another says there's a trapdoor in a house he bought and is helped with answers (no, it's not really a 'lock' in that case, but it is 'in use').

In this post (no offence to you ric2b, I'm just using your post as an example) someone says they have 'acquired' a new lock and...

a) shows a picture...not of 'the lock' but an image from a website of a 'similar' lock

b) says it has been picked several times but won't 'open'...as Solomon says, if picking as a hobby then turning the plug is the success

c) says that when using the key or thumbturn it 'only takes 2 or 3 turns to completely lock or unlock it'...if the key or thumbturn is turned 360deg on that lock the cam will turn 360deg...the only way it would take two/three turns to 'completely' lock/unlock it would be if it was in a door and had to be turned once to operate the latch and another time or two to deadlock/secure the MPL etc.

So, based on that, best case is that it is the poster's own lock installed in their own door...worst case is that....

Why do some people get jumped on with the 'don't pick locks that are in use' spiel, while others have their questions answered?

Cheers...

Hi there. I understand your concern and i will adress your questions with no problem (pardon my grammar, as I am not a natural English speaker):
a) When I first joined, I found this post http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=10528 wich then lead me to this one http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=6558. As I needed the image to be hosted somewhere else instead of just uploading it here, I found it easier to find an image that would ilustrate my problem.
As I am recent to lockpicking (been doing it for about 3 months), and until now I never had a doubt that i couldn't easily find an answer for, so I joined this forum. I had only picked padlocks before and when confronted with this I thought the problem was related with the thumb turn.

b) As said above, I was used to picking padlocks, and got used to the joyful click when they opened. When I tried to open this lock (which is now "in use", as it already is in my garage's backdoor) I felt frustrated.

c)And with this one is, I think, what probably gave you more suspicion. As I said before, when I first posted here I thought the (what I now know how it is called) thumb turn was the problem, and so I tried to find the image that would more clearly ilustrate my lock. since searching for door locks with thumb turns wasn't returnig the kind of image I wanted, I went with that one. So yes, my lock isn't as simple as the one in the image, it's a door lock with what i think is called a deadlock (again, I still don't know the terms of many things, but searching for deadlocks showed me a lot of locks that look like mine)

I installed the lock in the door this morning after deciding it wasn't worth trying to open anymore, since i now know what's is causing it. I still looked around the house, trying to find something that would work like the key, to reach the end and turn the cam, but couldn't, so I was done with trying.

I completly understand your concern, but since I was a new member I thought it was important to adress any suspicion, as I don't want any future doubts I might have, unanswered because of suspicion.
I understand that exchanging sensitive information like the one on this forums can be quite dangerous so i'll answer any further questions you might have

[EmCee]

Hi ric2b

Thanks for the good reply and welcome to the forum. As I said, I was not trying to offend you but was using your post as an example of the completely different responses visitors often receive to the same basic question.

As to your case, now I understand - the lock you acquired was not just the Euro thumbturn cylinder but was a Euro cylinder installed in a lockcase. So, turning the outside of the cylinder after picking it did not operate the bolt. I understand. I hope also that the lock gives you good service in the door.

And your English is absolutely fine.

Cheers...

[raimundo]

forget the key bitting just put a medium to large hook in the bottom of the keyway til its all the way through the cylinder and you should be able to get it.